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  #41  
Old 11-24-2022, 02:40 PM
McMain McMain is offline
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I am interested in the MC3500. I love the musical experience tubes provide, but I also enjoy the power and clarity that McIntosh's quad-balanced designs offer.

If my memory is correct, you have both in the system, where you can switch back to the MC1.25s if you wish.

Have you switched back to the MC1.25s for fun, or are you so pleased with the power the MC3500 offers that you feel you do not have to?

I ask because my current system is doing double duty with movies, and the MC75 does have the muscle for the sound levels I like to hit.

To get back on track, I see where the MCD12000 makes sense with the C12000 system.
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  #42  
Old 11-25-2022, 12:34 PM
Charles Charles is online now
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McMan, in my system most of the difference is in the bass. I have been giving my 3500's a break and have been recently using my 1.25's. In my system I can make my 1.25's sound very similar to my 3500's by changing the crossover slope to 12 dB/octave. Compared to the 3500's at 18 dB/octave the 1.25's lack the drive and pace of my 3500's.

I still give the 3500's the edge in the mids and highs but its not much. I want to emphasize that Mac bass is not smeared or fat. I can't stand that kind of bass. You can have tight over damped bass with superb resolution, no question. However, I want natural bass with great resolution that sounds like real bass. You get this with a 3500.

I went with a D1100/MCT500/3500 trio. I am extremely satisfied with my amplification, although I guess I'd prefer the other trio if I had the choice.

Best

Charles

p.s. I just posted my system in my previous post.

Last edited by Charles; 11-25-2022 at 12:49 PM.
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  #43  
Old 11-25-2022, 09:45 PM
McMain McMain is offline
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Thank you for sharing your experience with both amplifiers.
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  #44  
Old 11-28-2022, 11:13 AM
Blackfield Blackfield is offline
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I think the target audience can be a person who only does digital as source.

I only listen via streaming and yet currently own MA12000.
Only the USB input is currently used among plethora inputs that MA12000 support.

With similar money, one can do MDA200 + MC462 and you get more powerful and separate amp that is more upgradeable and much simpler preamp electronic.

In my case - I would probably choose the above over MA12000 - the only question is whether MDA200 preamp section is good enough.
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  #45  
Old 11-28-2022, 12:41 PM
Charles Charles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfield View Post
I think the target audience can be a person who only does digital as source.

I only listen via streaming and yet currently own MA12000.
Only the USB input is currently used among plethora inputs that MA12000 support.

With similar money, one can do MDA200 + MC462 and you get more powerful and separate amp that is more upgradeable and much simpler preamp electronic.

In my case - I would probably choose the above over MA12000 - the only question is whether MDA200 preamp section is good enough.
Your suggestion is an excellent way to begin building a premium Mac system. I think the pre will be of the same quality but you sacrifice flexibility. You could also add a suitable Mac tube amp and a C-22. I think the MDA200 is a great addition to the Mac lineup. I think its quality would support a MCT500 transport. Use the MCT input for SACD's. I really like the C-22. It's gorgeous.

Best

Charles
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  #46  
Old 11-29-2022, 12:47 PM
PeterMusic PeterMusic is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfield View Post
I think the target audience can be a person who only does digital as source.

I only listen via streaming and yet currently own MA12000.
Only the USB input is currently used among plethora inputs that MA12000 support.

With similar money, one can do MDA200 + MC462 and you get more powerful and separate amp that is more upgradeable and much simpler preamp electronic.

In my case - I would probably choose the above over MA12000 - the only question is whether MDA200 preamp section is good enough.
I'm pretty sure that an MDA200 with a "good enough" preamp would be a C2700.

I agree with Charles's message that a C22 is a good mate for the MDA200--I think this would also be equivalent to a C2700.

Although preamps such as the C22 seem like added cost and complexity for a digital-only system, I believe a good preamp such as the C22 or C2700 delivers a much richer sound than a DAC with a volume control direct to a power amp
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  #47  
Old 11-29-2022, 07:49 PM
Charles Charles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterMusic View Post
I'm pretty sure that an MDA200 with a "good enough" preamp would be a C2700.

I agree with Charles's message that a C22 is a good mate for the MDA200--I think this would also be equivalent to a C2700.

Although preamps such as the C22 seem like added cost and complexity for a digital-only system, I believe a good preamp such as the C22 or C2700 delivers a much richer sound than a DAC with a volume control direct to a power amp
Peter, I would say that you have summed it up quite well. I think the MDA200 is aimed at C-22 owners like you that desire a complete Mac signature system. This would include me if I owned a C-22. If I bought a 2700 a MDA200 would not be a consideration.

Best

Charles

__________________________________________________ _
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order:
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport; Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic; WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection; New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes; Thor is now off my floor; MC3500MKII mono block amps (2) and two custom granite slabs; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover; new 75-ohm multi-directional FM antenna for tuner
Amps: McIntosh MC3500MKII mono blocks (2), McIntosh MC1.25KW’s (3). All amps set on floor on custom made granite slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie; custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from ActivXO crossover to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to ActivXO; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

Last edited by Charles; 12-01-2022 at 12:35 PM.
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  #48  
Old 09-05-2023, 07:26 PM
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Bumparoo on this thread. I've been contemplating some changes (again). Any owners of the MDA200 care to chime in? I still have a Mc D100, but moved over to a W4S 10th Anniversary DAC-2 which is my current DAC and has been for quite some time. Great DAC, zero complaints but I kind of want to go back to a full Mc stack. This would also allow me to eventually get something like a used MCT450 to use the MDA200 with SACDs. Side note, if anyone is selling an MCT450 or 500, hit me up.

Anyhow, that's all more detail than necessary, anyone have some feedback on this DAC? This would be purely used as a DAC fed into my C2300.

Last edited by Maks; 09-05-2023 at 08:36 PM.
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  #49  
Old 09-07-2023, 12:52 PM
Charles Charles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maks View Post
Bumparoo on this thread. I've been contemplating some changes (again). Any owners of the MDA200 care to chime in? I still have a Mc D100, but moved over to a W4S 10th Anniversary DAC-2 which is my current DAC and has been for quite some time. Great DAC, zero complaints but I kind of want to go back to a full Mc stack. This would also allow me to eventually get something like a used MCT450 to use the MDA200 with SACDs. Side note, if anyone is selling an MCT450 or 500, hit me up.

Anyhow, that's all more detail than necessary, anyone have some feedback on this DAC? This would be purely used as a DAC fed into my C2300.
I ran across a review on You Tube that was extremely positive from a dealer who sounded quite knowledgeable. As far as sound quality, I owned an original MCD7000. I had an excellent system and it sounded open, sweet, detailed and musical. This was 40 years ago and the DAC had one channel. Years ago my Mac friend informed me that Mac had solved the jitter problem and that jitter would never be an issue with Mac DACs. The technologies for Mac switching and volume control don't change. What I'm saying is that if you were a new company or a young company creating similar technology de novo, the price of the MDA200 would be 18K, not 4K.

Would the MDA200/MCT 500/C-22 combo be of reference quality comparable to a MCD12000/C-12000 combo? IMO, no, but close especially if in a less than reference system, and I think competitive with much more expensive gear where the manufacturers redesign virtually everything from the ground up, when there is an upgrade. Finally, I want to say that there are well established manufacturers (Dag, dCS, and ARC would be three) that have followed a similar approach to Mac.

Best

Charles
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Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: MC2.1KW Anniversary power amplifier; C12000 An preamplifier; MCD12000 An SACD/CD player; AQ 1 meter Dragon balanced IC; 2 meter AQ Hurricane HC power cord; 3 meter AQ Hurricane Source power cord; unspecified 3 meter AQ digital coaxial IC and power cord for my backup MVP851 DVD player given as a surprise gift to me by my dealer
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport; Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic; WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection; New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes; Thor is now off my floor; MC3500MKII mono block amps (2) and two custom granite slabs; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover; new 75-ohm multi-directional FM antenna for tuner; total of eight additional Wilson Audio Heavy (red) pedestals placed under the MC3500MKII mono blocks; JRiver Media Center 31
Amps: McIntosh MC3500MKII mono blocks (2), McIntosh MC1.25KW’s (3). All amps set on floor on custom made granite slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 31)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie; custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from ActivXO crossover to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to ActivXO; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; Wilson Audio ActivXO electronic subwoofer crossover; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes; eight Wilson Audio Heavy (red) Pedestals placed under the MC3500MKII mono blocks (four placed under the rails of each amp)
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

Last edited by Charles; 09-07-2023 at 12:54 PM.
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  #50  
Old 09-08-2023, 12:49 AM
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Charles, thanks. I've got an MCD500 today, since I picked up some SACDs I just use the analog outs on it now which are fine, it's got a nice enough DAC in it IMO. The MDA200 is more future proofing with a compatible Mc CDP or transport. I've been tempted by the C2700 to consolidate all of this into one box, but I'm happy w/my C2300 as is. I'm in no hurry, so we'll see what happens.

Last edited by Maks; 09-08-2023 at 12:54 AM.
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