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McIntosh Audio A Tradition of Excellence |
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#1
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So Flash is dead...MB100...MS500?
The official demise of Adobe Flash reminded me that's what I use to interface with my MB100.
Despite the somewhat flammable subject line, I'd like to keep the discussion focused on what should the life expectancy be for a $6000+ McIntosh streamer? My MB100 was introduced in late 2014. The MS500 was introduced mid 2018. They both use the same app, which has had exactly 2 iOS updates: one in 2014 and one in 2017. They also both use Flash for the web interface. I know if you ask anyone at McIntosh, the firmware/software/update answer will always be: what problems are you experiencing that make you want an update? I guess my generic answer is that, because my MB100 is now a ticking time bomb, and I guess my expectations at that price point are different than McIntosh's. I bought my MB100 for system integration reasons, as well as expectations from the history of McIntosh. Maybe McIntosh knows that already, and counts on it - meaning, they don't necessarily need to focus on this area of concern, since people will just buy the newest thing from them. Anyways, hoping to be educated with some meaningful discussion. Last edited by Gershon; 01-04-2021 at 07:17 PM. |
#2
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This is a parallel subject to why I bought a Synology NAS rather than any other brand; they make great hardware (as do other companies), but they ALSO do software very well. With McIntosh, it’s all about the hardware; software be dammed. Cases in point, the MS300 & MS750. |
#3
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Quote:
I've a Naim NDX streamer since +5y, but also a 350€ SONOS Connect since 14 years. The SONOS app gets regular updates, is as good as bug free and is state of the art. Obviously, if you look at the number of SONOS units sold, they cannot afford to let the customer down. Next to that the software development cost is the same if you make an update for 1m devices or a couple of 1000 devices. Porting the application from Flash to another technology is a significant application rewrite. This is something companies are looking at. Quote:
Last edited by kurt1970; 01-02-2021 at 07:46 AM. |
#4
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I feel your pain.
What should be the lifespan of any streamer? Ask somebody who owned an Olive product. It’s not like an amplifier or other analog device that is not connected to a service through the internet. That’s why I’ve never purchased a streamer from any manufacturer. McIntosh makes great preamps, amps, speakers, etc. But they outsource a lot of their digital processing to other companies. The MS 750/300 is based on an Escient Fireball. MS 500 and MB 100 are based on an Autonomic Controls Product Why ANYONE would use flash in a 2014 or 2018 product is more than ignorant. It’s stupid. At least ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever. Cut your losses and run.
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Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
#5
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All good points here. Especially about history repeating itself:
The MS350 and MS700 were developed by Escient, which was acquired by D&M Holdings, and then Escient was discontinued altogether. The MB100 and MS500 were developed by Autonomic Controls, which was acquired by SnapAV. Here's the very unusual twist to this whole thread - it seems Autonomic has a new website, or at least one I've never seen before. They have a blog on the website, and there's a new post from dec 19 that details how flash has been discontinued and users should update to their new html5 web interface!!?! https://autonomic.biz/blog/flash-web...ed-with-html5/ So, now seeing this, when will our MB100 and MS500's be getting this new html interface? I know, I know, I need to lower my expectations for these McIntosh products. |
#6
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quick update: it looks like Autonomic was reacquired by the original CEO, and is an independent company again.
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#7
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I hope Autonomic takes care of ALL their customers.
When the MS 750/300 was developed both McIntosh and Escient were owned by D&M which was owned by Bain Capital.
__________________
Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
#8
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I know there's a dedicated group of people who wish they could modify the VxWorks OS on the MS 300/750 so that they could access the Gracenote database...not keeping up with this simple functionality is somewhat baffling on McIntosh's part. Why not put a post out there for one of the original Escient developers to just get this function working again, vs risk all the negative feelings, etc? What a huge opportunity this could be, and would do a lot to change the perception of McIntosh digital offerings....I know it's easy to be an armchair quarterback, but with Escient no longer existing, there's gotta be a reasonable way at this point...
Anyways, it looks like Autonomic is hard at work with the firmware updates, besides just the html5 web interface. Since they reacquired in May 2020, they've been busy addressing the firmware updates, which haven't happened in 5 years. To answer my own question earlier in the thread, here's what the autonomic blog says new firmware does (aside from the voice integrations, the rest of the updates are significant and substantial)...now I'm salivating for the new firmware: RELEASE 6.1.20201216.0, December 2020 New features Replace Flash Web UI RELEASE 6.1.20201201.0, November 2020 General software improvements Improve NAS compatibility Scheduling Improve preset reliability in Tunebridge schedules SiriusXM Protect other services from inactivity timeout Spotify Improve reliability when moving from one track to the next Improve reliability loading user playlists Improve handling for account used elsewhere Tidal Improve re-authentication process RELEASE 6.1.20201022.0, October 2020 New features Add Amazon Alexa integration (see the setup guide here, requires a TuneBridge account) Add Google Home integration (see the setup guide here, requires a TuneBridge account) General software improvements Improve USB DAC configuration and playback reliability Improve support for KP-6 All Off Improve device output configuration Improve performance and reliability in systems with multiple streamers and amps Improve MRAD feedback Improve performance while recalling presets Improve reliability of new control connections directly after boot Improve over-volume protection Scheduling Improve schedule reliability Improve schedule configuration page Turn off zones at end of schedule Crestron Improve stability and reliability while browsing Local content Improve cover art performance for local content Improve m4a format playback reliability Support newer SMB protocols for mounting NAS drives Support NAS paths with spaces Amazon Music Fix for playback of tracks with certain special characters in title or artist iHeartRadio Fix authentication issues Pandora Improve stations list update logic RADIO.COM Enable Skip Next/Previous for podcasts SiriusXM Improve playback reliability Spotify Improve Spotify playlist handling Reload content of updated playlists Fix issue switching between Spotify connect and browsed Spotify content Improve browse reliability Improve reliability when switching between Spotify Connect and native playback Improve error handling while loading user's saved content Ensure content is loaded in language appropriate to the user account Allow login through control client Tidal Replace user/password login with OAuth login (see here for more information) TuneIn Fix playback auto-resume on power cycle |
#9
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I've been told now by a few dealers, McIntosh will not be updating the MB100 or MS500 anymore...but keep in mind the source of my info is the dealer, which can only go so far I guess, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt for now...
I'm fortunate enough to have 2 MB100s - I got them blindly, as I needed streamers for my 2 different McIntosh systems and figured, how bad could they be, it's McIntosh built....anyways...I just cancelled my order for 2 MS500s which were going to replace these MB100s, as I was under the impression that the MS500 was getting regular updates, or at least there were plans to update it. So to wrap things up, the answer to my original post here, is we should expect around 2 years for updates for a McIntosh digital product. I guess I don't see why the dealer would steer me wrong - I was going to order 2 units from them, so there's that to think about. I know not many people have these units, or there would be more discussion here - that alone is telling to me as well. Anyways, I hope someone finds this info helpful, but I'd love to be proven wrong on some of these assessments, for every owner's benefit. Cheers, Gershon |
#10
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I would write a nice letter to Charlie Randall, certified, explaining that Autonomic Controls is taking care of their customers but that you haven’t heard anything yet from McIntosh so you’re curious as to what’s going to happen as Flash will NOT be supported and will go away at the next iOS and Android update.
See what comes back.
__________________
Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
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