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  #21  
Old 08-02-2021, 11:31 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by imprezap2 View Post
I think it is the first step in the Wilson method to align the drivers correctly, in my view it should not be that difficult to get the bubble perfectly centered. It has nothing to do with the sweet spot in my opinion.
It is important to get the drivers phase aligned as good as possible to have the best performance of the speakers.
As I mentioned I believe the bubble is well centered. There is no way to obtain a perfect straight down shot to eliminate skew. The other thing is that the level structure is magnified considerably by the camera. The circle is quite small, smaller than it appears, and the bubble even smaller. I think you would need a different method to achieve a more perfect levelness.

The speakers are quite level with respect to the floor and with each other. Either the floor is slightly out of level or there is skew, as I have mentioned. The very first pic taken from the rear show the effect of skew. The other issue is the levelness of the sofa and the floor between the floor and sofa. To me levelness is relative. That's why I asked the question: Is it level? What is your reference? It's a complicated matter. I think Wilson put the circle there for a reason. They didn't have to. I think the goals are to get the bubble within the circle, for the speakers to be level with respect to the floor and with each other, and to be rock solid on the floor, i.e., zero jiggle. Most speakers don't come with a level. Does anyone know of another speaker that comes with a built-in level?

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 08-02-2021 at 11:55 PM.
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  #22  
Old 08-02-2021, 11:58 PM
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To the title of this post, No, I don’t think that is level.

If I was building a cabinet or hanging a picture, I wouldn’t accept that. Camera angle or not.

But, if you are happy with it Charles, that is all that matters.
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  #23  
Old 08-03-2021, 09:40 AM
clpetersen clpetersen is offline
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Originally Posted by imprezap2 View Post
A 1 degree misalignment is almost 70mm at 4 meters
That is a good point. But let's assume everything is properly aligned with the bubble indicator in the spot as photographed by Charles. Centering the bubble will cause the 70 mm misalignment, not correct it.

The current bubble position is then the reference going forward. Unless it is some sort of tipping hazard, it seems the bubble position is relatively unimportant compared to the driver alignment(s).


Thoughts?
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Last edited by clpetersen; 08-03-2021 at 10:43 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-03-2021, 11:28 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
To the title of this post, No, I don’t think that is level.

If I was building a cabinet or hanging a picture, I wouldn’t accept that. Camera angle or not.

But, if you are happy with it Charles, that is all that matters.
I think I should go for +/- one Plank length. Seriously, I think you would. There is no such thing as "perfect level". Error is part of our reality. I have a Project that I haven't mentioned anymore that addresses this very question. It's a very huge complex architectural structure that is composed of squares, rectangles, cubes, and cuboids. The person who makes the measurements has a measuring stick and line that by definition has perfect measurements. This huge structure will be an intrusion into our quantum reality where there is no such thing as "perfect". There may be other realities where physical perfection is possible.

Suppose your floor is slightly out of level. Then the picture would be crooked in respect to your floor and look slightly crooked. My floor is slightly out of level. I know this from my cabinet, but my cabinet is still extremely level, the bubble being within the leveling marks. But it is not exactly within the marks.

This is why, this time around, I said, "Make the speakers 1.5" at the corners. Don't waste time on 'level', whatever that means." The whole install cost me one grand and took less than an hour. Turns out they are 1.57" to as exact as I can measure so they achieved an excellent result and the bubbles are within the circles. I think in our reality you must accept some error. There is no such thing as a perfect measurement in our reality.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 08-03-2021 at 12:00 PM.
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  #25  
Old 08-03-2021, 11:41 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
That is a good point. But let's assume everything is properly aligned with the bubble indicator in the spot as photographed by Charles. Centering the bubble will cause the 70 mm misalignment, not correct it.

The current bubble position is then the reference going forward. Unless it is some sort of tipping hazard, it seems the bubble position is relatively unimportant compared to the driver alignment(s).


Thoughts?
I totally agree. There is always some error. If you are constructing the mirror for the new space telescope it must be very minor. Nevertheless, the mirror will inevitably contain some error.

We live in a flawed, imperfect reality. This implies that a perfect reality could exist. A reality where physical error does not exist and cannot exist.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 08-03-2021 at 11:56 AM.
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  #26  
Old 08-03-2021, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
That is a good point. But let's assume everything is properly aligned with the bubble indicator in the spot as photographed by Charles. Centering the bubble will cause the 70 mm misalignment, not correct it.

The current bubble position is then the reference going forward. Unless it is some sort of tipping hazard, it seems the bubble position is relatively unimportant compared to the driver alignment(s).


Thoughts?
Anybody can use there own assumption, no problem for me, but I think these great Wilson speakers deserve better,
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2021, 07:37 PM
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Bubble levels themselves have varying degrees of accuracy for various applications they are designed for...

Sound itself is a bubble...

Our universe seems to be a swelling bubble...

Life is too short to be concerned with such minor imperfections but if a man was immortal, I suppose an eternity could be spent getting that bubble perfect.

Enjoy the music Charles.
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  #28  
Old 08-03-2021, 07:40 PM
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I don't know the exact construction of the Wilson diodes, but I "assume" that you can vary the spike length with the threaded part, very easy to get the bubble centered, just take the time , and yes, maybe more then just one hour required probably.
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2021, 07:43 PM
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anyway, these are just comments, if it works don't bother, but then I don't understand opening this thread, or am I wrong here :-)
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  #30  
Old 08-03-2021, 10:55 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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imprezap2 the point of the thread was to demonstrate the need for a straight down shot. I was surprised at the effect skew had with respect to the bubble's position within the circle. I wanted the speakers level with the floor, believing my floor to be quite level, which it is. However, it would cost me at least another grand to get them out to my house again, and I doubt that any meaningful improvement could be achieved. Let me say again, I believe if I could achieve a better straight down shot I believe the bubble would be even better centered within the circle. Also, let me reiterate that the level is quite small. The circle even much smaller. And the bubble even smaller. When I get up on my tippy toes and observe the bubble from front to back, the skew moves the bubble significantly to the front.

You are correct though. I do not feel worthy to own these speakers. I did something nuts. I bought a "Lamborghini" way out of my class. I am much more an "Alexx" than an XVX. But I sure do enjoy them.

Best and I have enjoyed meeting you,

Charles
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