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  #11  
Old 04-25-2015, 04:42 PM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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Originally Posted by joey_v View Post
SPL - basically is sound pressure level, how loud it is in db at listening position. download an app on your phone and check to ensure you're on same spl levels that you're used to with the 4ohm and 8ohm.
Thanks, I will check that out. In the meantime, I did switch back to 4 Ohm taps. Interesting in that while I'm connected to 8 Ohms, my head is thinking that 4 Ohms is vastly inferior sound, while the truth is, both sound outstanding, but 4 Ohm is just smoother, more robust bass but maybe a hair less tight, the vocals aren't as in your face but more relaxed and in many ways more natural sounding. The overall tone of the 4Ohm connections is fuller/richer but clearly not as detailed and accurate maybe?

Somehow, regardless both connections have their own distinct sound and truly create a very different listening experience, and I just can't decide which one I prefer. I know that to my ears, the 4 Ohm tap offers a wonderfully rich non fatiguing sound and if I had not ever connected to the 8 Ohm tap I doubt I would have ever questioned which is the one best suited to the speakers. It is interesting that B&W said 8 Ohm but some prefer 4 Ohm connections, just personal preference. Mcintosh said either was fine but I got the impression they really like the 4, based on the impendece plot line of these speakers, and the 800 series for that matter. Almost all of the bass requirements are below 4 Ohms, and my speakers drop down to 3.1, with a nominal rate of 8 Ohms.

My confusion still exists because I feel 8 Ohms provide the current that really wakes the speakers up, but it offers a more clinical perhaps even sterile sound, while the 4 Ohm offers a lush, smooth, full sound but I'm now aware that some of the highs are smoothed out, presenting less tonal accuracy. I just can't remember what my Classe CA301 offered as far as taps, but I don't believe there were multiple taps or any choices to be made. So all my attempts at speaker positioning etc. haven't done much to change the tonality of the speakers, it really just seems to me to be all about the Ohm connectivity.
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2015, 04:51 PM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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Originally Posted by tdelahanty View Post
I've owned the MA7000 which is similar to the 8000 and have heard the CM10's at my dealer. I would not consider them to be bright. Are you using the cables from your old system? How far from the wall are you placing your speakers? Perhaps new cables and/or placement from the rear wall will be more satisfying !!! GOOD LUCK.
Thank you! Do you recall experimenting with Ohm connectivity while you had the MA7000? When connected to 4 Ohm on these 8 Ohm speakers, I would not call them bright at all either. Only with 8Ohm connections do they start approaching, and in some cases reaching bright levels, but still are amazing in their dynamics, punch and absolute clarity.

I am about 18" from the back wall and I know ideally I should be further out still but real world family room issues exist, and I believe I have them farther out than some can manage. The cables are Audioquest and were being used with the Rotel MK 1582 MKII, both speakers and interconnects. They are only a little over a year old. I may check with dealer and see if he thinks new or different would be in order, but doesn't seem like they should.

Thanks again for your input and advise...much appreciated!!
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2015, 07:27 PM
joey_v joey_v is offline
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Maybe if you like 4ohm, just stick with it?
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2015, 08:02 PM
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cmalak cmalak is offline
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Jag...trust your ears. If the sound via the 8ohm taps is fatiguing and you regularly end up turning down the volume to take the edge off the highs, you will end up listening a lot less to music which will be a shame. I suggest doing the following experiment. Hook up via the 8ohm taps for 1 week and keep a journal. Notice how often and how long you listen to music, if you choose only certain type of music, and if you end up cutting your listening sessions short. Most of all try to notice how much you are thinking about the sound vs. how much you lose yourself in the music and get emotionally swept away (the only real test of whether a system is doing it for you or not). And then switch over to the 4 ohm taps for a week and keep a journal and try to notice all the above again.

At the end of this experiment, sit back and read through your journal/notes and I am willing to bet that your notes will likely point to the 4 ohm taps being the more enjoyable listening experience.

That is not to say that there couldn't be more optimal positioning that could ameliorate one aspect of the SQ or another, or that tweaking cables can help contour the sound to your liking etc...but my guess is this basic experiment will tell you at a basic level which taps serve up the music in a more pleasing manner and once that's decided you can go back to our affliction (audiophilia nervosa) and tweak away
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  #15  
Old 04-26-2015, 12:09 AM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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Maybe if you like 4ohm, just stick with it?

That would seem obvious wouldn't it Joey and possibly where I will end up. Unfortunately I find this to be a true passion vs a casual hobby, as I'm sure you also do, and have always listened with a critical, (more than I would like at times), ear. The problem is having the option to easily change taps, and where my head goes at the first listen of something that either sounds a bit too dark, "need to be connected to 8 ohm taps", or to bright, "wonder how this would sound on 4 ohm taps?" If there was a very subtle change in tone, that would be the clear answer. So the problem remains that I really do like the sound from both, almost to the point where I have two sets of speakers. This began as trying to find an answer to taming the high frequencies at 8 ohms, having reached the conclusion that was the connection these speakers needed. I guess now, after re-connecting to 4 ohms I've been reminded on that particular connection, there isn't any tweaking required, even if it isn't 100% ideal on all recordings all the time.
Really appreciate your feedback on this topic. It may be an issue specific to the CM10's also. It would be great if another CM owner would weigh in on this.
How are the 802's sounding at this point?
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  #16  
Old 04-26-2015, 12:31 AM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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Originally Posted by joey_v View Post
Maybe if you like 4ohm, just stick with it?
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Originally Posted by cmalak View Post
Jag...trust your ears. If the sound via the 8ohm taps is fatiguing and you regularly end up turning down the volume to take the edge off the highs, you will end up listening a lot less to music which will be a shame. I suggest doing the following experiment. Hook up via the 8ohm taps for 1 week and keep a journal. Notice how often and how long you listen to music, if you choose only certain type of music, and if you end up cutting your listening sessions short. Most of all try to notice how much you are thinking about the sound vs. how much you lose yourself in the music and get emotionally swept away (the only real test of whether a system is doing it for you or not). And then switch over to the 4 ohm taps for a week and keep a journal and try to notice all the above again.

At the end of this experiment, sit back and read through your journal/notes and I am willing to bet that your notes will likely point to the 4 ohm taps being the more enjoyable listening experience.

That is not to say that there couldn't be more optimal positioning that could ameliorate one aspect of the SQ or another, or that tweaking cables can help contour the sound to your liking etc...but my guess is this basic experiment will tell you at a basic level which taps serve up the music in a more pleasing manner and once that's decided you can go back to our affliction (audiophilia nervosa) and tweak away
CM...that is great advice and exactly what I'm going to do. Excellent advice and something I've already drawn some conclusions on without a journal. For example, I listen much more critically on 8 ohm taps and occasionally avoid music with higher toned acoustic piano or harmonica, like Diana Krall or Dylan.
And there is no question I listen at lower volumes with 8 ohms. Music washes over me in a less fatiguing way with 4 ohms some times, but that can change from day to day to my ears. But you're right this needs to be journaled and given a solid week of listening as Joey had also suggested before. I've tried to do that twice and each time before a week I've succumbed to the urge to switch back for the "other sound", well before a week is up. I listen a lot, every day so part of it may be that. The other thing I've been doing is hearing specific instruments or percussion, like castanets on a Sting album, that sound so crisp and good but played back on 4 ohms, they are there but less forward, to the point where I'm not sure what the producer or artist was even going for there.
Most of all thanks for your thoughtful advice...it's nice to be understood and hear from fellow enthusiasts who understand our near if not complete obsession
I'm connected to 8 ohm taps now and will stay there and journal for a week
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  #17  
Old 04-26-2015, 12:41 AM
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cmalak cmalak is offline
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Good luck and let us know how you make out
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2015, 02:27 AM
joey_v joey_v is offline
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That would seem obvious wouldn't it Joey and possibly where I will end up. Unfortunately I find this to be a true passion vs a casual hobby, as I'm sure you also do, and have always listened with a critical, (more than I would like at times), ear. The problem is having the option to easily change taps, and where my head goes at the first listen of something that either sounds a bit too dark, "need to be connected to 8 ohm taps", or to bright, "wonder how this would sound on 4 ohm taps?" If there was a very subtle change in tone, that would be the clear answer. So the problem remains that I really do like the sound from both, almost to the point where I have two sets of speakers. This began as trying to find an answer to taming the high frequencies at 8 ohms, having reached the conclusion that was the connection these speakers needed. I guess now, after re-connecting to 4 ohms I've been reminded on that particular connection, there isn't any tweaking required, even if it isn't 100% ideal on all recordings all the time.
Really appreciate your feedback on this topic. It may be an issue specific to the CM10's also. It would be great if another CM owner would weigh in on this.
How are the 802's sounding at this point?
I hear you... I am OCD like that too and would be very leary of sticking with the 4ohm if I knew the 8ohm improved certain aspects of the sound. But I also agree that sometimes whatever sounds better and gets you to listen to more music is probably the best and more ideal setting.

Regarding my 802 Diamonds, I am really beginning to get them dialed in. A fellow AA came by my place today to check them out and may buy them. We have not yet decided completely. If we choose to proceed with the sale and purchase of the 802 diamond, then I will be getting a "next level" speaker for myself.

The first up will be a Strad. And then the next will probably be another diamond, would really love to own an 800 diamond at some point in my audio hobby.
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  #19  
Old 04-26-2015, 11:19 AM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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I hear you... I am OCD like that too and would be very leary of sticking with the 4ohm if I knew the 8ohm improved certain aspects of the sound. But I also agree that sometimes whatever sounds better and gets you to listen to more music is probably the best and more ideal setting.

Regarding my 802 Diamonds, I am really beginning to get them dialed in. A fellow AA came by my place today to check them out and may buy them. We have not yet decided completely. If we choose to proceed with the sale and purchase of the 802 diamond, then I will be getting a "next level" speaker for myself.

The first up will be a Strad. And then the next will probably be another diamond, would really love to own an 800 diamond at some point in my audio hobby.
Joey your first sentence is the driving issue. We spend thousands and thousands of dollars on our hobby, where others find our passion hard to understand and even unjustifiable. We get it but lots don't. Even wives in most cases
But you are right, the knowledge of knowing one or the other delivers superior performance in even just certain aspects is hard to reconcile in my brain. That is the core issue. So I'm going to approach this as suggested and keep record my thoughts over a solid week, then do my best to stay with the connection provides the most pure listening pleasure.

A bit surprised to hear you may be selling your 802's in such a short time but realize the need to get it 100% right. I've been through my Electrostatic phase several years ago with Martin Logan SL3's, back to boxes Hales T8's, (all time favorite and most expensive at $10K but that was in 20000), a pair of Klipsch a LONG time ago, etc. This is my first Bowers experience and I've been very impressed even at the CM level. I really want to move up to at least 803's but ideally 802's.
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  #20  
Old 04-26-2015, 11:20 AM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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Good luck and let us know how you make out
I will for sure CM!
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