#51
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Charles, I've heard superb stereo systems, and superb multi-channel ones.
The best multi-channel set-ups were carefully assembled by sound engineers, from Challenge Classics, from trptk, and from the Concertgebouw of Amsterdam. When multi-channel is done properly, it wins from the best stereo for me. Of course, most music is recorded in stereo.
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Stereo: Hegel H590, Grimm Audio MU1, Mola Mola Tambaqui, Burmester 948 - V3 & V6 racks, Vivid Audio G2 Giyas, REL Carbon Special (pair), Silent Angel Bonn N8 Ethernet Switch & Forester F1, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse IC and SE SC, Furutech Digiflux AV: Hegel C-53, Marantz AV8802A, Oppo BDP-203EU, Pioneer Kuro 60", Vivid Audio C1 & V1w's, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse, SE & E Second system (veranda): Halgorythme preamp and monoblocks, Burmester 061, Avalon Avatar, Sharkwire & Wireworld cables |
#52
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Kal, it's always fun and interesting to debate a critical point and I hear what Bart is saying.
In regard to three being the minimum number of channels, I'm not sure who is advocating this in the distant past, or claiming it proved, the implication being that even more channels would be better. The only real life three channel system that I know of back in my youth was the Klipschorn/Cornwall "three channel" system which was not actually three channels but the center Cornwall was mono summed. No, stereo has withstood the test of time and by far the vast majority of high end systems are 2-channel stereo systems. My solid silver AQ Well Signature IC's that are 24' in length are 28K. Cables alone including power conditioners for my simple 2-channel system runs about 120K. A system like mine goes to tremendous lengths to preserve the original stereo signal until it reaches the speakers. The problem with all equalization is the digital equalizer. I would never employ a digital equalizer because it creates audible distortion that I can hear, easily. A company like Magico will provide digital equalization commensurate with the M3 or M6. The rest of the Q-sub will also be of commensurate quality. I am confused/perplexed by Kal's statement concerning the WAMM/dual Thor's Hammers. "FWIW, the best Wilson demo experience I've heard was, in fact, a 4.0 system with WAMM Master Chronosonics and dual Thor's Hammers. Frankly, I have no knowledge of how the bass management was handled but this was an all-digital system." Below is my friend at Wilson's reply which speaks for itself but I will also have a comment: "Hello Dr. Ruark, Thank you for your email. I am unaware of any WAMM customer that is using Thors Hammers with their WAMM main speakers. Most WAMM owner have purchased the associated Master Subsonic to use as the subwoofer system with the main towers. The use of a digital crossover in a WAMM system dismisses the time alignment precision built into the architecture while introducing digital conversion artifacts to the signal path. While it might be interesting to listen to, it is not how we intended the speaker to be used. When the WAMM is setup properly, the room correction system would be completely unnecessary. Wilson Audio has yet to hear a digital room correction system that does not have serious compromises to the overall sound quality. There is no free lunch. Nothing compares to a properly setup set of loudspeakers in a room that is properly treated. Your pair of XVX has many of the same adjustments and level of adjustment that the WAMM MC possesses. Integrating your Thors Hammer using the WATCH Controller is the best way to configure this system. I hope this is helpful. Thanks," My friend at Wilson worked with me diligently to achieve my XVX in my room. He has extensive knowledge of the Wilson speakers and has been with Wilson for many years. His comments are therefore authoritative. So if I understood correctly, Kal has listened to multiple WAMM systems and the one that happens to be fully digital is the one that sounds to his ears sounds the best. Best Charles Last edited by Charles; 07-13-2022 at 01:24 PM. |
#53
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In regard to the Wilson MCH system, I could be wrong about the identity of the subs. I didn't pay close attention to them and they could have been Master Subsonics.
As for the audibility of a digital equaliser, I doubt if one can detect it unless one is using analog source material, thereby inserting an A/D and a D/A conversion as well. Quote:
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#54
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Quote:
I couldn't disagree with you more about the effect of digital equalizers and neither could Wilson. They are audible in Wilson systems. You read the email. I'm not going to repeat myself. Best Charles |
#55
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Quote:
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Last edited by Kal Rubinson; 07-13-2022 at 05:58 PM. |
#56
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There won’t be any new subs until I get get into my new room. Then I’ll move onto Magico subs - if I go with the M6s. I desire to try the other speakers in my list above as well.
Why? The new mono amps are making all the difference. The Magico M3s are producing absolutely stunning base - and everything else - with the Westminster Labs REI monos we have in on demo. Unbelievable sound. I have no walls, the amps disappear along with the speakers. Layers upon layers of gorgeous music. As another audiophile has stated “they are giant slayers.” I haven’t decided if I’m going with the REIs yet - I’m still evaluating them along with some brand new designed BAT amps and the Audio Research 160M monos. But I have to say I’ve never heard a system sound like this. I’m not even sure I need a new room. I’m absolutely amazed. Two other audiophiles that were here yesterday said the same thing. I think one of them is going to be purchasing some new amps and Magicos. The system with demo REIs - 200w of Class A into 4 ohm speakers - bridged they give you 800w of Class A.
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Jazz Junkie Magico M3s; Vitus Masterpiece Components; TechDAS Air Force One; 2 x SME 3012-R; Airtight Opus 1 and MSL Platinum Signature; Taiko Audio Extreme + Switch; Albedo Metamorphosis Signature cables. |
#57
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Joe I may have missed it, but what is the msrp of the Westminster Labs mono amps?
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Buddy Boulder 1160 Amp, 1110 Pre-Amp Audio Research Ref. 3 Phono-Pre Vivid Audio Giya G2S2 Speakers MSB Reference DAC Innuos Statement w/Next Gen. PS B & W DB1D Subwoofer X2 Audioquest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner Kronos Pro Turntable w/Kronoscope RS tonearm + SCPS-1 PS + MSL Platinum Cart. VPI HW-40 Turntable w/ Lyra Etna cartridge Jay's Audio CDT3-MK3 CD Transport Schiit Mjolnir 2 HPA + Audeze LCD X headphones Adona Equipment Rack and Amp Stands Furutech Outlets and Plates + NCF Booster Shunyata Cables Synergistic Research Galileo SX Ground Block, FEQ 4, Black Box + Room Acoustic treatments |
#58
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They are app $28,400. You probably desire the trigger so that they automatically will turn on when you turn on your Pre. I’m not sure how much that is yet, but probably around $1500 or so. This is without their power cables and interconnects.
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Jazz Junkie Magico M3s; Vitus Masterpiece Components; TechDAS Air Force One; 2 x SME 3012-R; Airtight Opus 1 and MSL Platinum Signature; Taiko Audio Extreme + Switch; Albedo Metamorphosis Signature cables. Last edited by JoeN; 07-16-2022 at 04:13 PM. |
#59
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Jazz Junkie Magico M3s; Vitus Masterpiece Components; TechDAS Air Force One; 2 x SME 3012-R; Airtight Opus 1 and MSL Platinum Signature; Taiko Audio Extreme + Switch; Albedo Metamorphosis Signature cables. |
#60
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Pros:
I think most systems need subs. An exception may be the big Legacy whispers but most main speakers just can't produce the lowest octave with authority. Cons: Aside from the difficulty of integrating subs into a system, I can't think of any downsides. |
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