#21
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Welcome Grant. |
#22
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'Shunyata Research adds yet another custom element to the Hydra Model-4 in the form of its silver/rhodium plated CDA 101 copper buss bars. This one-of-a-kind buss system elegantly replaces all point-to-point wiring, improving current linearity and performance. Shunyata Research’s Trident-Defense System makes its first appearance outside of the Hydra Model-8 with Shunyata’s own 7-element Venom filter.' I posted this question directly at you back in 2005, when this 10audio.com review first appeared and someone posted a thread on Audiogon. Instead of answering those questions, you decided to contact Audiogon to delete the whole thread (from the perspective, that probably was the only possible solution, as Shunyata got caught red-handed). And BTW - that quote reminded me, that there was more BS marketing involved - the so called '7 element Venom filter'. As could see on the image posted below, the '7 element Venom filter' consisted of one Metal-Oxide Varistor and one noise suppression capacitor across each duplex AC receptacle. Two parts from the component (load) perspective, inlet to outlet ! Hydra 4 with '7 element Venom filter' and 'no point to point wiring': Even if we try to be generous, and count a Carling magnetic circuit breaker a 'filter' (find me an engineer that will claim that a circuit breaker can be considered a 'filter') and then count another capacitor across the second duplex AC receptacle, we come to the total sum of 4 elements (and in reality just 2), not 7 ! So that, as well, was total BS, as correctly pointed in 10audio review. If the current products indeed "have a 30 element filter board" and use "no point to point" then great ! More power to you. Make no mistake. I think you make great products. I've always been a great fan of your PCs, I have been using Anacondas CX for years, and now I'm eagier to try the new Cobra PCs. But pls, spare us the BS marketing. Last edited by Elberoth; 06-14-2012 at 08:03 PM. |
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Awesome!!!
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#24
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Elberoth,
Where to begin. This is looks like your personal game of "gotcha" and from the tone of your comments, one with quite a bit of energy behind it. I was e-mailed your response. You are not just accusing us of "BS marketing", you are accusing us of lying. We have never misrepresented or lied about _anything_ that goes into the products. >>>Grant, I'm sorry to say that, but there were. I didn't do a print screen of your web page (maybe I should have), but the reviewer from 10audio did a simple copy and paste: <<< The Ten Audio gent went out and bought himself what looks like a 2003-2004 Hydra 4 because we wouldn't loan him a current unit. The listed spec's in 2004 would not match our current web-spec at the time for pretty simple reasons. Caelin updated the Hydras, which he did as his concept for the Hydras evolved. Following, is a link to the 2004 page for the unit 10 Audio obviously had. http://web.archive.org/web/200411040...ey=Hydra4Specs >>>"Shunyata Research adds yet another custom element to the Hydra Model-4 in the form of its silver/rhodium plated CDA 101 copper buss bars. This one-of-a-kind buss system elegantly replaces all point-to-point wiring, improving current linearity and performance. Shunyata Research’s Trident-Defense System makes its first appearance outside of the Hydra Model-8 with Shunyata’s own 7-element Venom filter."<<< Yes, the buss straps pictured replace all point to point wiring. The wiring you see there is inlet wiring, which has to be in any and all power units for obvious reasons. That, no one could replace. Point to point wiring in power products refers to the wiring between or from the outlets. I already explained this. As you can see, there are buss straps there replacing the wiring. Yes, 2005-2007 we were using a 7 element filter. The unit 10 bought for himself was made in '04 or earlier. I don't understand why you think the more complex answer would be true-- us lying about such a trivial matter, than the far more simple truth? Most people would not know, or more to the point, care whether we put 7, 2 or 20 elements into the units--they just listen. Caelin is a "spec" guy from his days in the military so he wanted the accurate "spec's" listed. They have ALWAYS been accurate to what's been in the products at given times. >>>"Instead of answering those questions, you decided to contact Audiogon to delete the whole thread (from the perspective, that probably was the only possible solution, as Shunyata got caught red-handed)."<<< I never had any thread canceled or removed from AudioGon. Moderators there have always been more than capable of doing that themselves. We were not caught red handed, blue-handed or any other hand color, but you are really trying to force it in there. >>>"As could see on the image posted below, the '7 element Venom filter' consisted of one Metal-Oxide Varistor and one noise suppression capacitor across each duplex AC receptacle. Two parts from the component (load) perspective, inlet to outlet !"<<< Once again, our page from 2004 listing _exactly_ what was in the Hydras made at that time. This is representative of the unit mr 10 bought used to make his "DIY" article from. http://web.archive.org/web/200410230...navitemid=2339 Ok, so now I have addressed each of your accusations specifically. If this follows other "internet game" themes, another round of accusations will appear. Where is the line of accountability for writing all these accusations? You seem angry that I replied and eager to point fingers without all the facts. "So that, as well, was total BS, as correctly pointed in 10audio review." This is essentially name calling. I don't know why you see the need for that. No. Some guy decided on "pay-back" when I declined to loan him a product to review. He purchased an older used unit from who knows where and wrote a DIY article rather than the "review" he called to ask us about writing. It really is that simple. I am sorry you feel the way you do. I cannot keep chasing the tail of that 8 year old DIY article all over the internet. I've taken a lot of time to answer your very pointed questions and hope this satisfies them, though given the tenor of your post I'm not confident they will. Regards, Grant Shunyata Research Last edited by GrantS; 06-15-2012 at 08:05 AM. Reason: added links |
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Grant, I appreciate hearing your side of this. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
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I'm sure neither side is completely wrong and neither side is completely right! (like most things in life). A poetic licence in marketing is ubiquitous these days which is why I completely ignore all marketing efforts and rely on my own assessment or that done by those whose ears I trust. |
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My first thought is that the OP has a definite agenda in mind here, good or bad you can decide. As for the 10Audio DIY power strip I read that several years ago and made one myself and it was a total POS. My work/wiring skills are very solid but you are all free to think what you like. As for my experience with Shunyata I'm happy. I'm running a Hydra 8 and power cords as well and to my ears they are better than anything I had before, which were either "stock" cable or Kimber Power Kords. As for Grants posts I thank him for taking the time to adress these concerns and am satisfied to that end
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]2-Channel System: Luxman L590Aii, D-05 CD/SACD ,VPI Classic 3 (Rolling Stone photo shoot table), VPI SDS, Shelter 501 MKII , Wilson Audio Duette,Shunyata Denali 6000T, Anaconda Zitron, Alpha Digital, and Black Mamba power cables, Tara Labs RSC Air 2 speaker wire, RSC Prime M1 IC's. |
#28
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I noticed Shunyata have just published some basic specs on their power cables but are yet to do this for their signal cables. Last edited by MyPal; 06-15-2012 at 09:26 PM. |
#29
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Grant,
Thank you for posting the link to the 2004 Shunyata page. At least everyone can now compare the marketing slogans to the open Hydra 6 for himself. On your web page, you boldly claimed 'no point-point wiring': This is plain and simple. No ifs and buts. It doesn't say 'does not include AC inlet wiring', or 'does not include circuit breaker-duplex outlets wiring', or 'does not include duplex outlets interconnecting wiring' - nothing. Reading those words, the customer has the right to expect that ALL point-point wiring was removed in favour of solid buss bars. Now, this is what I found inside the Hydra 6: Everything is almost entirely hardwired ! The exact opposite ! To tell you the truth, If I wasn't really watchful, I wouldn't probably even have noticed those tiny 'solid silver power distribution busses' ! That 'solid silver power distribution buss' is in fact a tiny piece of sth which looks like copper (!) connecting duplex outlets together. Everything else is point-point wiring ! OK, but lets move on. There is another claim, that I just noticed that is also far from the truth - 'each outlet individually filtered': In practice, outlets are filtered in pairs, as there is a single common capacitor for each duplex outlet ! (the cap is that black square object behind the copper *ahem* silver buss bars) To claim that 'each outlet is individually filtered', you would have to put a cap next to EACH outlet, link the Audience is doing: In other words, for 6 outlets you would have to use 6 capacitors, not 3. Regarding the element count that form the Venom filter. Indeed, the 2004 web page describes them as 5-element, and on 2005 web page the Venom filter is described as 10-element. It seems that the the specs on all Hydras has changed in 2005, from Hydra 2 to Hydra 8. As you are such an open company and proudly display the innards of your products during the shows (your own words), me - and I guess many other audiophiles as well - would be much relieved if you publish an image of 2005 or later Hydra 6 to show us the differencies and back up those claims. Also, as the model designation didn't change, I think you owe it to the owners, to you publish the serial # for each Hydra model after which the design change took place, so that everyone could verify if he has say Hydra 2 mk I or Hydra 2 mk II (improved). Last edited by Elberoth; 06-18-2012 at 12:41 PM. |
#30
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I would like confirmation on whether the outlets are filtered in pairs or individually for the current 2011-2012 Hydra line, then you also have the additional two outlets for the Triton Euro version. How different is the Euro version to the rest of the world apart from the input voltage?
If they are filtered in pairs, then there should be a recommended placement / plugging of the various components (i.e. amp, pre, source etc)...or doesn't it make any difference? I am going to split off my amps into separate Cyclops when they arrive & use Talos for the rest of my gear. Having the plugs grouped in pairs on the Talos means that some plugs like the Furutech Flux are a tight fit given the large barrel diameters. Triton Euro Triton Talos Last edited by MyPal; 06-18-2012 at 01:17 PM. |
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