Lost in the details

[George Prentice]

I have spent the last fifty years slowly learning, earning, and building my audio system. I loved the outcome and process. I upgraded to what I thought was to be my ultimate system about eight years ago with an ARC Ref 5se preamp, Sim 650 DAC with outboard power supply, Pass x350 amp and Sonus Faber Olympica 3 speakers, VPI TT and a couple subs. I did this while still working, in advance of retirement. It sounded fantastic. I have an incredibly good sounding audio room (lucky not good). It was good at all sorts of music.

Throughout the process of building over the years, details, tonal balance, midrange, imaging, rhythm and pace, etc.… I took into account. For much of my life I had ribbon speakers of some kind but I was careful to built a system that was not too far into the detailed end so half my recordings sounded bad… however, they imaged the soundstage very accurately. I could easily hear the venues. They were also musical and believable. I have had season tickets (row 8 center) to the Oregon Symphony for nearly the last decade. It has a surprisingly outstanding orchestra and hall.

On my quest for my system, I occasionally would hear an incredibly musical system. One that would just pull at my emotional core and involve me in the music. These were inevitably tube systems. Usually the emotion came with an incredible loss of detail. Sometimes I would hear incredibly detailed… natural with great slam… but usually lacked in the emotional draw.

I found my system found a great balance to all the different aspects. I tried and quit streaming… then tried again and upgraded to an Aurender WE20se… that incredible piece of equipment changed everything and caused a cascade of upgrades… see my signature line.

While auditioning the ARC REF160s my audio guy brought over a ARC REF CD/DAC. I did not want to try it… I was not interested. But he had brought it over, I respect him, we have had a relationship for twenty years. Within two minutes I had sent him a message to order me one. I really did not have the money… I then upgraded all my interconnects to Transparent Ultra. Wholly cow.

So, the reference system is gone. Now I have a 100% music system (funny it is a known thing: All Audio Research, Sonus Faber, Transparent interconnections). It has the heart and soul of those incredibly emotional tube systems I heard but with all the detail, silent background, and imaging. I am completely captivated. But it is making me rethink the approach I had taken to get here. I just wonder when one triggers the "evaluate… analytical" process in our brains it jumps on the easily distinguishable parameters… details, slam, stuff that really should be secondary thoughts not primary. I know some folks start looking for musical first… but I am pretty sure that is the minority. Most of us are pretty analytical. I am not sure that sometimes we get waylaid by details that are really not important. My system does not have the slam, the vivid edges of the sound stage, the micro structures of the edges of instrument sounds, but it has better bass, and the emotional pull of incredible rhythm and pace. It does not make poorly albums sound bad… but just plays the music and draws me in and makes the experience amazing. I can't help but thinking if I had taken a turn towards smaller scale musical system 35 years ago, and built up from that side of the equation I would not have gotten here much quicker. But, then, I really did enjoy the journey.

[jakegt3]

I've gone through a very similar journey. I also got started about 50 years ago and have finally settled on a system (see my signature) that I consider to be musical and emotionally engaging, and not necessarily one that is the most analytical or detailed. My system has Audio Research Reference electronics of relatively recent vintage. I used to own Sonus Faber but now have the marvelous Focal Sopra No. 3's. Like the Audio Research electronics, the Focals are not the most analytical or detailed speaker but they are so musical. They just draw you into the music experience.

My reference point is also live concerts. Until COVID hit, I regularly attended symphonic concerts around the greater Boston area. Sometimes I would get front row seats. That striking thing about these live concerts is that I simply don't hear the exquisite detail, the ultra-precise imaging, the huge front-to-back depth, or the prominent high frequency emphasis that is so common in many "high end" systems. The things about live music that stand out are the midrange presence, the physical scale of the music, and the effortless power of a symphony. I've structured my system to try to recreate that experience and, in particular, to emphasize realistic midrange reproduction.

I don't know if I'm done yet in this journey, but these days I'm much more into listening to the music than trading equipment.

[George Prentice]

Originally Posted by jakegt3

I've gone through a very similar journey. The things about live music that stand out are the midrange presence, the physical scale of the music, and the effortless power of a symphony. I've structured my system to try to recreate that experience and, in particular, to emphasize realistic midrange reproduction.

Wow, that is very similar. I noticed that when I started (somewhat unconsciously changing my system to better reproduce classical... acoustic, that most all other music types got better (maybe not Rock)... but jazz, electronic, world and of course classical. Befor that a move that made electronic sound better made the rest sound less good.


After I wrote above I thought:

- Less slam but better and more ubiquitous bass

- The whole first as well as the parts... instead of optimizing all the parts. Great gestalt

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by George Prentice

I have spent the last fifty years slowly learning, earning, and building my audio system. I loved the outcome and process. I upgraded to what I thought was to be my ultimate system about eight years ago with an ARC Ref 5se preamp, Sim 650 DAC with outboard power supply, Pass x350 amp and Sonus Faber Olympica 3 speakers, VPI TT and a couple subs. I did this while still working, in advance of retirement. It sounded fantastic. I have an incredibly good sounding audio room (lucky not good). It was good at all sorts of music.

Throughout the process of building over the years, details, tonal balance, midrange, imaging, rhythm and pace, etc.… I took into account. For much of my life I had ribbon speakers of some kind but I was careful to built a system that was not too far into the detailed end so half my recordings sounded bad… however, they imaged the soundstage very accurately. I could easily hear the venues. They were also musical and believable. I have had season tickets (row 8 center) to the Oregon Symphony for nearly the last decade. It has a surprisingly outstanding orchestra and hall.

On my quest for my system, I occasionally would hear an incredibly musical system. One that would just pull at my emotional core and involve me in the music. These were inevitably tube systems. Usually the emotion came with an incredible loss of detail. Sometimes I would hear incredibly detailed… natural with great slam… but usually lacked in the emotional draw.

I found my system found a great balance to all the different aspects. I tried and quit streaming… then tried again and upgraded to an Arender WE20se… that incredible piece of equipment changed everything and caused a cascade of upgrades… see my signature line.

While auditioning the ARC REF160s my audio guy brought over a ARC REF CD/DAC. I did not want to try it… I was not interested. But he had brought it over, I respect him, we have had a relationship for twenty years. Within two minutes I had sent him a message to order me one. I really did not have the money… I then upgraded all my interconnects to Transparent Ultra. Wholly cow.

So, the reference system is gone. Now I have a 100% music system (funny it is a known thing: All Audio Research, Sonus Faber, Transparent interconnections). It has the heart and soul of those incredibly emotional tube systems I heard but with all the detail, silent background, and imaging. I am completely captivated. But it is making me rethink the approach I had taken to get here. I just wonder when one triggers the "evaluate… analytical" process in our brains it jumps on the easily distinguishable parameters… details, slam, stuff that really should be secondary thoughts not primary. I know some folks start looking for musical first… but I am pretty sure that is the minority. Most of us are pretty analytical. I am not sure that sometimes we get waylaid by details that are really not important. My system does not have the slam, the vivid edges of the sound stage, the micro structures of the edges of instrument sounds, but it has better bass, and the emotional pull of incredible rhythm and pace. It does not make poorly albums sound bad… but just plays the music and draws me in and makes the experience amazing. I can't help but thinking if I had taken a turn towards smaller scale musical system 35 years ago, I would not have gotten here much quicker. But, then, I really did enjoy the journey.

Congratulations! I know exactly what you mean. I have the ref6se, ref160 monos with transparent reference cabling. Wilson Alexia 1s. There's a kind of liquidity in the music with this combination. Definitely not the most resolving, I admit.

I am curious about what you bought... You didn't say you bought the ref160s, but you implied that. Do you still have the ref5se? Whatever you do... Don't try the ref6se! [emoji1787]

[George Prentice]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

Congratulations! I know exactly what you mean. I have the ref6se, ref160 monos with transparent reference cabling. Wilson Alexia 1s. There's a kind of liquidity in the music with this combination. Definitely not the most resolving, I admit.

I am curious about what you bought... You didn't say you bought the ref160s, but you implied that. Do you still have the ref5se? Whatever you do... Don't try the ref6se! [emoji1787]

I Have a REF 160s amp, REF6se Preamp, and REF3 Phono stage... the thing that instantly brought the digital side together was the REF9se DAC/CD player. Suddenly the whole chain just snapped into harmony.

I did all the other changes first, the change from 5SE to 6SE was last... the main boost was when all components became ARC REF. Then the 6SE was introduced during breaking of the other components.

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by George Prentice

I Have a REF 160s amp, REF6se Preamp, and REF3 Phono stage... the thing that instantly brought the digital side together was the REF9se DAC/CD player. Suddenly the whole chain just snapped into harmony.

I did all the other changes first, the change from 5SE to 6SE was last... the main boost was when all components became ARC REF. Then the 6SE was introduced during breaking of the other components.

Awesome, George! Congrats on a fantastic system. I have esoteric in my mix, for digital and also my phono pre. Great combo as well.

I think my next speakers will be more resolving, but the arc stays.

[W9TR]

George - thanks for posting your journey. Congratulations for landing on a system that checks all the boxes for you. I have found evaluations over weeks are the right way for me to judge gear - it gives me time to stop being so analytical and really experience the system emotionally. Great fun!

[George Prentice]

Originally Posted by W9TR

George - thanks for posting your journey. Congratulations for landing on a system that checks all the boxes for you. I have found evaluations over weeks are the right way for me to judge gear - it gives me time to stop being so analytical and really experience the system emotionally. Great fun!

Thx. I am in 100% agreement of decisions over time. Unless something just hits me, I try always not to listen to the components but just the music and in a couple weeks let my subconscious decide. I actually spent a lot of time figuring out why that works better.

[mulveling]

Ditto here - thanks so much for sharing your journey! I think a lot of us relate to your own experiences, and it helps use feel not quite so crazy and alone in our own quests

I've definitely been thinking recently - how in the past it used to seem REALLY tough to achieve a truly satisfying, enveloping and detailed musical system. I hated going through components that were well reviewed yet sounded completely uninspiring in my system. BUT a lot of today's current tube gear is really something special. Despite tubes being old tech, this stuff isn't standing still - high quality builds using exceptional parts quality (and new careful attention to wiring, vibration control, power supplies) are showing us that vacuum tube amplification is still capable of much more.

Quality brands dedicated to tube amplification like ARC and VAC (just two examples) are just hitting it out of the park with the current lines. And yes they cost a lot of money - but it's worth it!

[bachrocks]

Thank you, George, for the beautiful story. It was a great pleasure to read.
ron