Old Lamm M1.1 - Should I consider?

[sidvee]

I live in India where Lamm does not have a dealer. However I really love the Lamm sound and own the ll2.1 deluxe picked up stateside. A pair of 12 year old M1.1's are available for sale here at a very attractive price. Also since they are available in India logistically it is much better to buy them as all the Lamms are monstrous and shipping is a big hassle when trying to import. Do you think I should consider these? What would be the pitfalls of buying such old amplifiers - such as drying/defective caps etc. Do share your thoughts.
Cheers,
Sid

[Smp]

Sid, this might help - just on 17 years ago I purchased a pair of LAMM ML2 amps direct from LAMM as at that time there was no LAMM distributor in my country. Two months ago I sold them to someone in Japan as I had replaced them with a new pair of ML2.2s. The ML2s operated faultlessly for the entire time I owned them, I replaced the valves every couple of years, sourced from LAMM and never had a tube failure at any time. Lamm's support was always helpful, professional and friendly. I received the ML2.2s before letting the ML2s go and what impressed me - in fact amazed me was just how competitive they still were 17 years later. The guy who purchased them is very pleased with them. He reported that he simply switched the voltage from 240v to 100v, changed the fuses, switched on and re-biased the units and within an hour had great music..........I almost had a pang of seller's remorse!
Personally, I wouldn't hesitate.

[sidvee]

Thanks a lot Smp. That is a real confidence booster. I will engage with the seller now, awaiting some detailed photos of the amplifiers.
Cheers,
Sid

[Smp]

Sid, I have assumed that the amps you are considering are in mint condition as my ML2s were.........they looked like they were made on the same day as the ML2.2s were.

I also noted in one of your posts that you owned an LL2.1D and were fondly viewing an L2 Reference upgrade at sometime............I purchased the L2 Reference a couple of years after acquiring my ML2s and was/am very happy ( initially used a CAT Ultimate which was terrific as well), however on a whim I bought an LL2 Deluxe and somewhat surprisingly I find on balance I probably have it in my system more regularly than the L2...........perhaps as it is all valve and has slightly higher gain which suits my circumstances more. I have kept the L2, and still swing back and use it often. I have noticed that others have come to this conclusion as well,but many would disagree with me. I believe there might be some discussion on this issue in the LAMM forum. Anyway, my recommendation is to live with LL2.1D for a while before moving.

[sidvee]

Actually Smp the amps. are not in mint condition. Also the owner claims they were fully serviced 4 years ago at Lamm, but does not have documentations to back this up. I have the serial nos. and forwarded them to Lamm to see if they can verify at-least the age of the amps. and if the service claim is right. I am proceeding cautiously. I hear you on the LL2.1 deluxe. For now I am sticking with it.
Cheers,
Sid

[thesaint519]

Originally Posted by sidvee

I live in India where Lamm does not have a dealer. However I really love the Lamm sound and own the ll2.1 deluxe picked up stateside. A pair of 12 year old M1.1's are available for sale here at a very attractive price. Also since they are available in India logistically it is much better to buy them as all the Lamms are monstrous and shipping is a big hassle when trying to import. Do you think I should consider these? What would be the pitfalls of buying such old amplifiers - such as drying/defective caps etc. Do share your thoughts. Cheers, Sid

As a Lamm owners myself, I can heartily say "yes, you should consider." It sounds, however, that you're in a less than ideal situation. I purchased my Lamm M1.2 monos used, then drive them over to Lamm in Brooklyn for the once over. Since you don't have that luxury of even shipping them without incurring massive costs, I, too, would proceed with caution. I don't know exactly how good a deal you may be getting on these amps, but it might make sense to buy on the used market from somebody who claims there amps are in pristine condition, so long as their feedback is excellent. X is there a way that you could live with these amps for a time before you buy?

[sidvee]

Originally Posted by thesaint519

I don't know exactly how good a deal you may be getting on these amps, but it might make sense to buy on the used market from somebody who claims there amps are in pristine condition, so long as their feedback is excellent. X is there a way that you could live with these amps for a time before you buy?

The nearest distributor for Lamm is in Singapore. Used deals on the amplifiers do pop up from time to time. So I am thinking of pursuing this route. Usually the used units sold in Singapore market are in mint condition.
However the issue of shipping and customs is still a big deterrent. Indian Customs duties are usually 30-35% on landed costs so ultimately assuming one is getting 40-50% off on used units he will still end up paying close to new retail. This is why importing does not make much sense most of the time. Also this is also the reason why I can't audition Lamm amplifiers either. Hopefully they will have a Indian dealer in the near future. Ultimately I prefer to support local dealers unless of-course there is no dealer.
Cheers,
Sid

[thesaint519]

Originally Posted by sidvee

The nearest distributor for Lamm is in Singapore. Used deals on the amplifiers do pop up from time to time. So I am thinking of pursuing this route. Usually the used units sold in Singapore market are in mint condition. However the issue of shipping and customs is still a big deterrent. Indian Customs duties are usually 30-35% on landed costs so ultimately assuming one is getting 40-50% off on used units he will still end up paying close to new retail. This is why importing does not make much sense most of the time. Also this is also the reason why I can't audition Lamm amplifiers either. Hopefully they will have a Indian dealer in the near future. Ultimately I prefer to support local dealers unless of-course there is no dealer. Cheers, Sid

I completely understand. The person selling the pair of amps near you, will they let you live with them for a short time – perhaps with some contingencies? I can assure you, these amps are built like tanks and are expected to virtually last forever. So yes, if you can find a good set, you'll be satisfied long term.

[Smp]

Hi Sid,

Sorry to learn of the condition issue - assume they are the pair in New Deli - agree a very enticing price. I also agree with the saint519's comments. I am in Perth, Australia and Singapore is a short hop for me - I stop off there quite frequently when travelling to Europe and have gone on a vinyl/CD buying trip a few years ago and know the audio scene over there quite well. Singaporean audiophiles generally seem to be fastidious in maintaining their equipment, however second hand prices over there are relatively high compared to the US and AUS.

Hope you can find what you are seeking.

[Smp]

Originally Posted by sidvee

Actually Smp the amps. are not in mint condition. Also the owner claims they were fully serviced 4 years ago at Lamm, but does not have documentations to back this up. I have the serial nos. and forwarded them to Lamm to see if they can verify at-least the age of the amps. and if the service claim is right. I am proceeding cautiously. I hear you on the LL2.1 deluxe. For now I am sticking with it.
Cheers,
Sid

By the way have you hear back from LAMM as yet?