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Old 04-21-2015, 08:58 PM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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Default CM10's and Mcintosh MA8000

Ok so I'm really struggling right now with my setup as it relates to the 8 or 4 Ohm tap on the MA8000. My prior system of 15 years was a Classe CA301 with Hales Transcedence 8's. It didn't have separate taps for various ohm rated speakers, so I never really had any decisions to make....it just sounded great all the time.
I've had the Mac and CM10's since January of this year. They were initially connectd to the 4 Ohm taps and I liked the sound a lot, even though I felt the sound was a little warmer and with less punch at times than was ideal.
I switched to the 8 Ohm taps and heard an immediate difference. More punch, crisper highs, perhaps a bit lower volume bass, but tighter at the same time, more dynamic and more detailed. It also plays quite a lot louder at the same volume selection. The only issue here is that at times the highs and vocals sound overly bright and I sense greater listening fatigue.

So I find myself switching back and forth way too often and can't seem to land on one or the other. I think the 8Ohm tap gets more from these speakers, just that listening is easier at times on 4 Ohms, but I know they aren't as revealing.

What have Mac/B&W users settled on for the most part? Anyone experienced the same level of confusion or inability to decide? Can anyone relate?

Last edited by Jagman; 04-21-2015 at 09:08 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-21-2015, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jagman View Post
Ok so I'm really struggling right now with my setup as it relates to the 8 or 4 Ohm tap on the MA8000. My prior system of 15 years was a Classe CA301 with Hales Transcedence 8's. It didn't have separate taps for various ohm rated speakers, so I never really had any decisions to make....it just sounded great all the time.
I've had the Mac and CM10's since January of this year. They were initially connectd to the 4 Ohm taps and I liked the sound a lot, even though I felt the sound was a little warmer and with less punch at times than was ideal.
I switched to the 8 Ohm taps and heard an immediate difference. More punch, crisper highs, perhaps a bit lower volume bass, but tighter at the same time, more dynamic and more detailed. It also plays quite a lot louder at the same volume selection. The only issue here is that at times the highs and vocals sound overly bright and I sense greater listening fatigue.

So I find myself switching back and forth way too often and can't seem to land on one or the other. I think the 8Ohm tap gets more from these speakers, just that listening is easier at times on 4 Ohms, but I know they aren't as revealing.

What have Mac/B&W users settled on for the most part? Anyone experienced the same level of confusion or inability to decide? Can anyone relate?
Stick with 8ohm, and you will get used to it to the sound, give yourself a week or so and don't change back. and if your high freq. is too sharp change the speaker positions.
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:15 PM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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Stick with 8ohm, and you will get used to it to the sound, give yourself a week or so and don't change back. and if your high freq. is too sharp change the speaker positions.
Thanks Dante's. Any particular positioning you recommend that typically softens high frequencies? Currently approx 8' apart with a subtle toe in to center. Does less toe in typically soften highs?
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Old 04-21-2015, 11:36 PM
joey_v joey_v is offline
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Less toe in softens treble usually since it is related to dispersion. I would stick with 8. It's how your cm10 were designed.
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Old 04-22-2015, 12:03 AM
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Thanks Dante's. Any particular positioning you recommend that typically softens high frequencies? Currently approx 8' apart with a subtle toe in to center. Does less toe in typically soften highs?
Yes, lean back your speakers little bit not too much, quarter inch front of your speakers put larger spikes in front and in the back of your speakers put the rubber feet and try.
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Old 04-23-2015, 06:53 PM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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I've been playing with speaker positioning, including the subtle lean back Dante suggested. I didn't really hear any softening of the high frequencies. I also took out almost all toe in but to no avail of consequence. I have since left them with a more subtle toe in and it sounds a bit better. More than anything, I think, it's a matter of A) my room with 12' ceilings and B) the speakers themselves. They are fine speakers but they are smaller floorstanders than I have been accustomed to. The fact is they will play loud, but in my room, driven by my 300 WPC MA8000, and particularly when connected to the 8 Ohm taps,
I need to begin listening sessions at a volume level of approx 34-36% vs the 40-42% I was listening at while connected to 4 Ohms. So some re-calibration if you will of my listening style. It's another testament to the significant difference in tone between the two taps.
At the end of the day, I'd ideally like a silkier sound, as much as I like these speakers, but again hard to tell how much is room vs speakers or amp. My plan was to but a set of 803 Diamonds later this year and have a feeling they will be better matched to the MA8000. With the CM10's, the amp almost seems to over power them when pushed. I much prefer that to feeling under powered though. It just feels like thre is a pretty small window, from say 36% to 48%, until the sound and volume just seems to reach its non fatiguing peak. All of that is when connected to 8 Ohms, where the sound is really superior within those levels. With the 4Ohm taps, the volume window is much larger, but the sound isn't nearly as precise or crisp.
I'm not really sure where that leaves my OCD addled brain, but at least I think I understand it. Any other view points with Mac amps and B&W speakers is welcome
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Old 04-24-2015, 02:10 PM
joey_v joey_v is offline
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Here is lateral dispersion characteristics for cm5, similar to cm10. As you can see the high end drops with less toe in.

You might be hearing something else like distortion or first reflection. Or you could be listening louder that before and you cannot rely on the volume marker but instead you will need to see what spl you are at at listening position.

Checking slp levels could be the key to understanding what's going on.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:50 PM
Jagman Jagman is offline
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Here is lateral dispersion characteristics for cm5, similar to cm10. As you can see the high end drops with less toe in.

You might be hearing something else like distortion or first reflection. Or you could be listening louder that before and you cannot rely on the volume marker but instead you will need to see what spl you are at at listening position.

Checking slp levels could be the key to understanding what's going on.
Yeah...I'm still experimenting Joey. Still have the brighter than I'd like to hear tone. I'm gonna start over with complete neutral positioning, as I agree it would seem to improve in this area. The weird thing is the speakers sound VERY clean crisp and clear...just a bit harsh up high. Sorry but what is "SPL?"
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Old 04-24-2015, 09:43 PM
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I've owned the MA7000 which is similar to the 8000 and have heard the CM10's at my dealer. I would not consider them to be bright. Are you using the cables from your old system? How far from the wall are you placing your speakers? Perhaps new cables and/or placement from the rear wall will be more satisfying !!! GOOD LUCK.
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Old 04-25-2015, 01:27 AM
joey_v joey_v is offline
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Originally Posted by Jagman View Post
Yeah...I'm still experimenting Joey. Still have the brighter than I'd like to hear tone. I'm gonna start over with complete neutral positioning, as I agree it would seem to improve in this area. The weird thing is the speakers sound VERY clean crisp and clear...just a bit harsh up high. Sorry but what is "SPL?"
SPL - basically is sound pressure level, how loud it is in db at listening position. download an app on your phone and check to ensure you're on same spl levels that you're used to with the 4ohm and 8ohm.
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