SE'ed LP125M are back

[ronenash]

With 60 hours on the burn in meter the LP125M SE are already sounding better. The bass is still not very accurate and soundstage width and depth are still lacking. In the highs is already way better than before the upgrade with more detail and air.
I will keep them working continously for another 12 hours after which I will run them about 12 hours a day. Will keep updating.

[bgiliberti]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Patience is the key regarding Teflon cap burn in. Shane, myself and others have found that it will take 4-5 months of playing before they start to open up and sound musical. In my experience, 500 hours is required before they *start* to sound more listenable, rather than 50. Just want to share what I found to be more realistic expectations; many people give up too soon and get rid of their components because they still sound pretty poor even at 300-400 hrs; the Teflon cap burn-in hell can be pretty frustrating, but definitely rewards patience.

Thanks for the info, but this is one of the more depressing pieces of news I've heard lately, as I am now at 500 hours on my classic se. I have to say, I am getting pretty bummed at this point. If all I played was bongo music and wood blocks, I'd be ecstatic, but unfortunately for me, I'm an opera buff, and Pavarotti still sounds like he has a cold. Admittedly, I'm coming from a Pv-7, which may be the most forgiving (alas, also the least revealing) preamp CJ ever made, so it could be it's me, and not the preamp that needs to break in. But, honestly, I think I know good sound, and what I'm hearing is simply not convincing musically - especially and the midrange/vocals, which are flat and even slightly 'furry' around the edges. Plus, it's pretty good one day, and not the next, which apparently is 'normal' for teflon.

When you say you have been waiting since February, my god! Is it really sensible to make a product that needs 8 months to 'just sound right?' Since I live near CJ, I'm thinking of bringing it to them for a listen. Maybe this is the way it is and I bought the wrong preamp? Maybe not a good match with my Harbeth 30s, or my CJ MF80? Really, what I did not expect for my $2000 was another 7 months of wondering what the damn thing is supposed to sound like! Sorry for the rant, but this is bugging me!!! I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge and the willingness to share views on this board. I'd be feeling a ton worse than I do now without the support u guys have provided.

[Rayooo]

Originally Posted by bgiliberti

Thanks for the info, but this is one of the more depressing pieces of news I've heard lately, as I am now at 500 hours on my classic se. I have to say, I am getting pretty bummed at this point. If all I played was bongo music and wood blocks, I'd be ecstatic, but unfortunately for me, I'm an opera buff, and Pavarotti still sounds like he has a cold. Admittedly, I'm coming from a Pv-7, which may be the most forgiving (alas, also the least revealing) preamp CJ ever made, so it could be it's me, and not the preamp that needs to break in. But, honestly, I think I know good sound, and what I'm hearing is simply not convincing musically - especially and the midrange/vocals, which are flat and even slightly 'furry' around the edges. Plus, it's pretty good one day, and not the next, which apparently is 'normal' for teflon.

When you say you have been waiting since February, my god! Is it really sensible to make a product that needs 8 months to 'just sound right?' Since I live near CJ, I'm thinking of bringing it to them for a listen. Maybe this is the way it is and I bought the wrong preamp? Maybe not a good match with my Harbeth 30s, or my CJ MF80? Really, what I did not expect for my $2000 was another 7 months of wondering what the damn thing is supposed to sound like! Sorry for the rant, but this is bugging me!!! I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge and the willingness to share views on this board. I'd be feeling a ton worse than I do now without the support u guys have provided.

In general I personally think this "burn in" thing is a bit overplayed these days. I also must admit that when I sent my original CJ Classic in for the SE update, upon return I had a hard time understanding what all the fuss was about a few Teflon Caps and Vishay Resistors. In time, and it did take many hours, I did begin seeing the change. I'd say it took maybe 250 hours tops though for things to settle.

I think my ET-5 must have around 500 hours by now, and I'd say it's been broken in since probably 300ish hours.

And then I read somewhere that JC-1 Power amps take 1000 hours to sound right!!.. which I have a hard time accepting, I guess I'll know for sure in another 750 listening hours

Good Luck sorting this out!

[Rafale]

Originally Posted by bgiliberti

Thanks for the info, but this is one of the more depressing pieces of news I've heard lately, as I am now at 500 hours on my classic se. I have to say, I am getting pretty bummed at this point. If all I played was bongo music and wood blocks, I'd be ecstatic, but unfortunately for me, I'm an opera buff, and Pavarotti still sounds like he has a cold. Admittedly, I'm coming from a Pv-7, which may be the most forgiving (alas, also the least revealing) preamp CJ ever made, so it could be it's me, and not the preamp that needs to break in. But, honestly, I think I know good sound, and what I'm hearing is simply not convincing musically - especially and the midrange/vocals, which are flat and even slightly 'furry' around the edges. Plus, it's pretty good one day, and not the next, which apparently is 'normal' for teflon.

When you say you have been waiting since February, my god! Is it really sensible to make a product that needs 8 months to 'just sound right?' Since I live near CJ, I'm thinking of bringing it to them for a listen. Maybe this is the way it is and I bought the wrong preamp? Maybe not a good match with my Harbeth 30s, or my CJ MF80? Really, what I did not expect for my $2000 was another 7 months of wondering what the damn thing is supposed to sound like! Sorry for the rant, but this is bugging me!!! I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge and the willingness to share views on this board. I'd be feeling a ton worse than I do now without the support u guys have provided.

The craftiness it is to make it buy by somebody else and then to to buy back to him 50 % of the new price with the break-in just to be finished... .

[bgiliberti]

Originally Posted by Rafale

The craftiness it is to make it buy by somebody else and then to to buy back to him 50 % of the new price with the break-in just to be finished... .

Why didn't I think of that first, let someone else do the work for me....

[ronenash]

Originally Posted by bgiliberti

Thanks for the info, but this is one of the more depressing pieces of news I've heard lately, as I am now at 500 hours on my classic se. I have to say, I am getting pretty bummed at this point. If all I played was bongo music and wood blocks, I'd be ecstatic, but unfortunately for me, I'm an opera buff, and Pavarotti still sounds like he has a cold. Admittedly, I'm coming from a Pv-7, which may be the most forgiving (alas, also the least revealing) preamp CJ ever made, so it could be it's me, and not the preamp that needs to break in. But, honestly, I think I know good sound, and what I'm hearing is simply not convincing musically - especially and the midrange/vocals, which are flat and even slightly 'furry' around the edges. Plus, it's pretty good one day, and not the next, which apparently is 'normal' for teflon.

When you say you have been waiting since February, my god! Is it really sensible to make a product that needs 8 months to 'just sound right?' Since I live near CJ, I'm thinking of bringing it to them for a listen. Maybe this is the way it is and I bought the wrong preamp? Maybe not a good match with my Harbeth 30s, or my CJ MF80? Really, what I did not expect for my $2000 was another 7 months of wondering what the damn thing is supposed to sound like! Sorry for the rant, but this is bugging me!!! I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge and the willingness to share views on this board. I'd be feeling a ton worse than I do now without the support u guys have provided.

The PV7 is a very different animal from the Classic SE. The PV7 is old scholl CJ (rounded off at the frequency extremes, glorious mid and not very detailed). The Classic SE is a modern CJ design, very detailed with good extension at the frequency extremes and more air in the highs. If your power amp if the MF80 it will still throw you back to old school CJ sound which many including myself like very much. With that said I still enjoy the benefits of the modern designs very much.
Regarding burn in, 500 hours should be enough to make the preamp sing. However burning in a preamp is simple. All you need to do is connect it to a power amp (the power amp does not have to be turned on) and run music through it. It can be radio, computer based or CD on repeat (which will put un-necessary milage on your CD). You can leave the music playing whenever you are not listenning and turn the power off. Three weeks of this and your preamp is burned in.
Burning in a tube power amp is more difficult as you can not leave it on playing music for three weeks

Hope this helps,

[ronenash]

I Listened again to the 125 again this morning and the teflon capacitor burn in process description is so true. Yesterday the amps sounded fairly good and I really enjoyed listening to music. This morning was a whole different story. Everything sounded muffled and veilled. It was almost like listening to a portable radio. I could not believe it. It was so bizar that I got up to check the cabling. This is the worst the amps sounded thus far.

I decided to leave the amps on all day. Maybe this evening things will get better.

[Rafale]

Thanks for sharing Ron, it is to note that this is not the exclusivity of CJ, the owners of Naim gear also notice the same phenomenon: phases of regression in the process of maturation of big capacitors.....It is much easier to leave on permanently on SS, but we cannot have everything.....

[bgiliberti]

Originally Posted by ronenash

I Listened again to the 125 again this morning and the teflon capacitor burn in process description is so true. Yesterday the amps sounded fairly good and I really enjoyed listening to music. This morning was a whole different story. Everything sounded muffled and veilled. It was almost like listening to a portable radio. I could not believe it. It was so bizar that I got up to check the cabling. This is the worst the amps sounded thus far.
I decided to leave the amps on all day. Maybe this evening things will get better.

Thanks again for the hand holding everyone. I appreciate it! The back and forth thing is so true, and so frustrating emotionally. I can tell from the first bass note whether it will be a good day or bad day -- when I hear the liquid extended bass note first up, everything else sounds right too. If it's dry bass, everything else is going to be compressed and compacted. One thing that seems to help is to put up the volume control on the preamp pretty high when the power amp is off, as if to force more signal through the bypass capacitor, which I assume cj has if it's like my old guitar amp. Maybe it's my imagination (and I know nothing about electronics/schematics) but it seems to make it sound better. BTW, I agree with your comments on the PV7 -- I would never go back to it, at least with my current rig. I was missing too much. Would I have been happier with the non-SE classic? maybe... but I was told the midrange is the same, and that's where my issue is now. So who knows? I think the teflon burn in affects everything, and that the midrange is the last to snap into place. That is my hope at least, because the Classic SE sounds sooooooo much better than the PV7 on in every other area. When I get true vitality and coherence on the midrange -- I'm not looking for the old CJ warmth -- I will be very happy! This morning, BTW, it sounded as sweet as it ever has --- a good sign.

[ronenash]

Originally Posted by bgiliberti

One thing that seems to help is to put up the volume control on the preamp pretty high when the power amp is off, as if to force more signal through the bypass capacitor, which I assume cj has if it's like my old guitar amp. Maybe it's my imagination (and I know nothing about electronics/schematics) but it seems to make it sound better. BTW, I agree with your comments on the PV7

You are definitly right. I know a few things about electronics
When you turn up the volume on the preamp you are driving more current through the bypass capacitors and the power suply. This is as long as the preamp is connected to the power amp (even if the power amp is turned off). Driving more current through the capacitors will accelerate the burn in process. Do not turn the volume up too high to avoid clipping. You can safely turn it a but past you highest listening level.