Are we alone in the universe? Poll

[IM3CPO]

Originally Posted by PHC1

I appreciate your input and you have valid points as well.

And I appreciate yours as well! I do have a point I will get to later, but I am glad you dont see my responses as threatening or ill willed. Being challenged helps figure out flaws (if there are any) and moves everyone forward.

Originally Posted by PHC1

However, throughout all of your answers I still fail to see any evidence that our planet is unique in any particular way that would allow it to harbor life while countless others that we have found so far that fall under the same criteria as “habitable” and relatively speaking “nearby” to us, since we can not see very far nor go there explore them, are not....

The evidence you fail to see has actually been repeated by me constantly. There are no signs of life on other planets. Earth has life. There are tons of other "unique" differences too but there isnt much point in going past the most obvious..

Originally Posted by PHC1

We have only started looking and they are there next to us (relatively speaking). If these “Goldilocks” planets are there and are highly suspect for supporting life, it doesn’t necessarily mean “there is” intelligent life on them but it also doesn’t mean “there is not”.

Yes, I 100% agree with this in theory.

Originally Posted by PHC1

Now, if science finds that unique ingredient and it doesn’t exist elsewhere, we can probably stop looking. That won’t happen, we are not unique.

This wont ever happen because there is never a time one can stop looking for something that changes over time. For example, has there been an update to the messages in this thread? (its 10:57pm as I type this) How about now? (its 10:58 pm as I type this). As soon as you check to see if the thread has been updated, you need to check again as checking the thread took time and the thread may have been updated in the time it took to check. The only way to stop checking is to remove the ability for the universe to change, and that will only happen when it doesn't exist anymore, which kind of defeats the whole thing to being with.

Originally Posted by PHC1

We are nothing more than the ordinary basic elements that exist throughout universe and carbon based life of which there is countless variety of. Judging by our planet alone, the variety of living organisms on only one planet and surprisingly only one tree of life, (yes we are distant cousins of mushrooms and toads and birds and fish, etc), imagine the variety that can potentially exist throughout the universe.

This again is something that I think is slipping you up. If you want to say that carbon based complex elements are not unique, then I would agree with you. There is the notion though that with some things, the sum is greater than its parts. This refers to times when the relationship and interaction between complex individual things creates something new and more complex than the original. Humans and life in general (not to mention literally millions of other practical thingsl), clearly falls into this category.

Here is the big reveal:

Everything you have stated here (even your poll questions/responses) would have been validated if you had used the word "believe". Do *you* "believe" life exists on other planets? Do *you* "believe" life is unique to Earth? Ironically, your whole point of view is based on faith. Faith in your beliefs.. There is nothing wrong with that. Coincidentally, the ability to have faith and beliefs is also what makes you human. Animals dont have that capability/capacity. Its a "uniquely" human trait.

Science should not be used in belief and faith based situations though. The scientific method is more along the lines of "Ask a question, do research, construct hypothesis, test hypothesis with experiment, analyze data, draw conclusions from the data", etc. None of the things you are talking about with respect to aliens, and the uniqueness of life fall into this schema.

You have every right to believe whatever you want. But you do yourself a disservice trying to convince yourself of your beliefs using the methods you are using. Just go with your beliefs and you will be much better off (in my opinion).

[GaryProtein]

PCH1

You cannot have a discussion with someone who is using the bible or religious beliefs, covertly or not, to defend his position on a scientific subject.

Faith has no business in this discussion. That which is taken on faith is irrational. Making a statement based on statistical probability of life elsewhere is not one based on faith. Stating life does NOT exist elsewhere is based on faith. After all, WE are here. It is very self-centered and egotistical to think that we are unique.

Just because we do not yet have evidence of extraterrestrial life does not mean it doesn't exist. I was recently speaking about extraterrestrial life with a colleague of mine who is an orthopedic surgeon (presumably an intelligent guy). I asked him why he doesn't believe there is life elsewhere in the universe. His reply was "I just can't." I pushed him for a reason. He told me he has to believe the earth is unique because not believing that would put him in opposition to his religion.

This topic is one rife for mental masturbation.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by GaryProtein

PCH1

You cannot have a discussion with someone who is using the bible or religious beliefs, covertly or not, to defend his position on a scientific subject.

Faith has no business in this discussion. That which is taken on faith is irrational. Making a statement based on statistical probability of life elsewhere is not one based on faith. Stating life does NOT exist elsewhere is based on faith. After all, WE are here. It is very self-centered and egotistical to think that we are unique.

Just because we do not yet have evidence of extraterrestrial life does not mean it doesn't exist. I was recently speaking about extraterrestrial life with a colleague of mine who is an orthopedic surgeon (presumably an intelligent guy). I asked him why he doesn't believe there is life elsewhere in the universe. His reply was "I just can't." I pushed him for a reason. He told me he has to believe the earth is unique because not believing that would put him in opposition to his religion.

This topic is one rife for mental masturbation.

It's all good, I have nothing against religious beliefs though I myself am an AGNOSTIC.

The Vatican however does not exactly oppose the idea of life on other planets.


Painting by well known and Vatican-connected artist Aert de Gelder showing a UFO illuminating the baptism of Christ. Considering his access to rare Vatican relics, writings and information protected from public view, is he telling us something about the true nature of Jesus and his origins that has been hidden from us?

[Antonmb]

Originally Posted by IM3CPO

The evidence you fail to see has actually been repeated by me constantly. There are no signs of life on other planets. Earth has life.

But this is only limited data based on examination of a subset of 9 planets we can see. We have no way of knowing yet how many other planets there are, or whether there is life on any of them, and therefore no conclusive evidence that we are unique. You might as well look at 9 rocks in your back yard, see moss on only one of them and decide this is evidence that your mossy rock is the only one in existence.

[radio times]

I truly believe there is life on some of the endless planets out there, and I'm firm in me faith too. If they have been gifted the same intellect imagination and extension as us, or more, or less, is also possible. Bouncing up and down in spacesuits on the moon ain't going to tell us though and that's all we've physically actually done. As our/your space probes get more elite we might know in time, it's just that physical space ships would get vaporized by space dust, rocks etc if they get to travel at or beyond light speed.

[JemHadar]

If we are alone it would be an incredible waste of Space...
...but then...for the Universe it wouldn’t make any difference.

[robfine]

To really know, you have to hear it from those who have experienced it for themselves:

https://youtu.be/PfPdYYsEfAE

[PHC1]

If the topic of unidentified flying craft makes perfect sense today as we have something to compare it to such as our own flying objects, how does one explain the ancient, religious and even cave art depicting beings and craft of extraterrestrial origin? One can find evidence of that on every continent and every ancient culture. Where did they get the idea or inspiration to depict something that did not exist? Especially that it often matches the phenomena people witness in modern times?

[PHC1]

I want to thank you all for participating in the poll and as always it was great to have the input from those that contributed.

Well, based on our own small poll sample, we scored a bit higher in favor of extraterrestrial life being out there. Based on other, much larger polls:

"Nearly half of Earthlings believe that we aren’t alone in the universe — and want to make contact with alien life, according to a new study.

The findings of the survey — conducted in 24 countries by research group Glocalities — showed that 47 percent of the survey’s 26,000 respondents believe “in the existence of intelligent alien civilizations in the universe.”

And 61 percent responded “yes” when asked if they believe in “some form of life on other planets.”

Among those who believe humans aren’t alone in the universe, 60 percent said we should try to communicate with extraterrestrial beings.

Only a quarter of survey-takers said they don’t think intelligent life exists beyond Earth.

[Poppyhome]

Originally Posted by PHC1

It's all good, I have nothing against religious beliefs though I myself am an AGNOSTIC.

The Vatican however does not exactly oppose the idea of life on other planets.


Painting by well known and Vatican-connected artist Aert de Gelder showing a UFO illuminating the baptism of Christ. Considering his access to rare Vatican relics, writings and information protected from public view, is he telling us something about the true nature of Jesus and his origins that has been hidden from us?

Serge.........you have now crossed the line with more FAKE NEWS. Your Vatican statement is sickening..........................

The image blown up is the Holy Spirit represented as a dove. Images of luminous disks have been used for thousands of years representing the divine. It's not a UFO.



Luke 3:21-22:

«Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.»

The dove is a very common symbol of the “Divinity”, or God, in many historical, religiously sacred works of art. The dove represents the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Ron