Newbie needs upgrade help

[mbovaird]

I knew my math was off. Too long a day....Thanks for correcting Gary.

[kfr01]

Dom_P:

I recommend allocating more of your budget to the speakers and less to the electronics. In my opinion (and also statistically) speaker performance dominates electronics performance by many orders of magnitude. In other words, the character of the speakers has the largest impact on overall audible character. If Maggies interest you, have you considered the Maggie 3.7's for the front pair?

I would also allocate budget for a nice subwoofer (or subwoofers, plural) having bass EQ.

McIntosh is great, but if I were looking to build a complete surround-sound system, including speakers and subwoofer, for $15k, a McIntosh pre/pro would not make my list.

Good luck! It sounds like you might have the early stages of the LuFlu.

[Dom_P]

Originally Posted by kfr01

Good luck! It sounds like you might have the early stages of the LuFlu.

Yes, I hear the first symptom is a lighter wallet.

As for allocating more to speakers than electronics, I understand the rationale, but here's my thought.

I'd like to see if I can buy amplification that will stay with me for many years. So I'm willing to invest more heavily there. I know processors will evolve and if I had my druthers I wouldn't invest much there at all. But even if I went with a cheaper processor for HT and separate preamp for music, I'm not sure I wouldn't be approaching the price of the MX121. I know I'll blow my budget if I go with the 2 channel amp and seperate 3 channel, but I believe I'm going to end up there in the end, so I might as well bite the bullet now - as I don't plan to upgrade there for a long time. Which really leaves me with the speakers. Im not sure how much higher price than say the price of the Tritons (for fronts, center and surrounds) I can go and still keep my original budget in the rear view .

Certainly I welcome any and all advice, but I can't see a different allocation for me unless there's a better/less expensive way to do the pre/pro combo

[Dom_P]

Originally Posted by mbovaird

Plus, if you join the Mike & Joe club (it's really more of a support group ) - then the additional power will give you flexibility and more options for future speaker purchases.

Mike

Mike,

Makes sense to me. I dont think this will be my last set of speakers given what I heard coming from the Sashas. I'm assuming the club meetings start with "hi my name is Dom and I haven't bought any audio gear in ..."

[Whart]

Speaker efficiency is a far easier way to get sound pressure levels than buying big amps. Yes, you can get oodles of watts for cheap, but I'm not sure sonically that you'll like what you hear. (I haven't listened to the latest class D stuff for example). I'm certainly not a Mc fan boy, but the alternative, if you want an all in one processor preamp, probably puts you into a lower quality box- I think the better preamps reach a limit when you are throwing in multichannel sound processing. (I'm not dissing the various 'high end' processors as such, but you are not going to get the same preamp/line stage performance from an Onyko processor that you'll get from the state of the art contenders in preamps for two channel). And yes, there is a huge price differential. That's why I had suggested two systems, one for HT and one for serious audio. But, you can do them in one system, and I'd be hard pressed to think of other processors, apart from the McI (perhaps the Meridian, but they ain't cheap) that will get you pretty big league sound.
FWIW, on paying for watts to get SPLS, I use 18 watts per channel in my hi fi rig. My speakers are approximately 104 db efficient. Not that horns are the answer for you either, but you could get away with less power if you have a more efficient speaker. And comparing a system with a Shindo preamp and Wilson Sasha speakers to a more modest system is probably going to show you where the money does go for sound if you buy the right components. But, I'm still willing to bet, for movie and TV soundtracks, you don't need to have equipment of that level to get a decent home theatre experience. Like I said, I went from all ARC tube amps (except to power the subwoofers) to a Mc multichannel amp for HT, and it's a pretty impressive, big theatre system (which I rarely use )

[Dom_P]

Whart

Thanks, very insightful.

So explain something to this noob... Let's say I decide to go with something cheaper for HT and invest in a better 2 channel preamp. Is it possible to "integrate" the separate pre and pro and run them into a single set of amps? Or do I go for say a setup where the processor connect to a 5 channel amp for HT and the analog preamp into a different 2 channel amp for music? And if it's the later, can I drive the same set of front speakers from both those amps somehow (I mean I know I can electrically, but does it create any issues, say with impedance)? I ask as don't want to setup a separate listening room at this time and four front speakers won't really fly WAF wise. Speaking of that I'll need this is be fairly easy to use for the rest of the family (maybe that's more a remote control issue though). I'm sure this is basic stuff, so appologies ahead of time .

[chessman]

Originally Posted by Dom_P

Whart

Thanks, very insightful.

So explain something to this noob... Let's say I decide to go with something cheaper for HT and invest in a better 2 channel preamp. Is it possible to "integrate" the separate pre and pro and run them into a single set of amps? Or do I go for say a setup where the processor connect to a 5 channel amp for HT and the analog preamp into a different 2 channel amp for music? And if it's the later, can I drive the same set of front speakers from both those amps somehow (I mean I know I can electrically, but does it create any issues, say with impedance)? I ask as don't want to setup a separate listening room at this time and four front speakers won't really fly WAF wise. Speaking of that I'll need this is be fairly easy to use for the rest of the family (maybe that's more a remote control issue though). I'm sure this is basic stuff, so appologies ahead of time .

I am not Wharf, but if I may ...

I am currently doing exactly what you are asking about - using a combined modest HT and high-end two channel rig. I use the same main speakers for the left and right front mains and the same two channel amp. The key to such a system is to use a two channel preamp that has a setting for "unity gain" (sometimes called HT bypass).

When playing two channel, none of the surround speakers, subs or processor are used and preamp is on the port that I have assigned to either the CD player or the turntable, respectively.

When playing a movie, a DVD player feeds the surround processor which sends a signal via seven interconnects (7.1 system), 5 of which go to the HT amp and two of which goes to my two channel preamp set on the unity gain port, which means my preamp acts like a straight wire and just sends the signal on without changing its volume. In effect the preamp is invisible to the surround processor. You contgrol volume at the surround processor.

The two things to decide ahead of time when you go this way are (1) how am I going to manage bass and (2) do I want a tube preamp in the chain? As to (1), there are a couple of methods, but the easy one is to let your surround processor manage the bass for HT and your preamp just sends a full signal to your mains for music. But (1) only works if you have full range or nearly full range mains and an amp up to the task. Alternatives are too lengthy to discuss in this post. As to (2), the easy answer is to go with a solid state preamp. I use a tube preamp with long life tubes and will just pay the price when the tubes go. Some tube preamps leave the tubes out of the chain when in unity gain/bypass, but unfortunately mine does not.

I hope that is helpful.

[Dom_P]

Chessman

Yes that was very helpful, thanks.

I think that's a direction I'd like to pursue.

I like it as it puts me in a place where I can invest in a good preamp that I can keep for a long time and keeps the processor decoupled which allows me the option to upgrade as standards evolve.

I guess I can use some processor and preamp advice now

[vvvvvv]

Hi. Interesting thread.


I've currently got SF Cremona m, ARC VS115, and a ARC LS17 pre. Source is an oppo bd95, cables all balanced. All good for 2 channel.

I've got a projector in the room and a B&W ASW750 sub also.

Question is, if I want to add rear speakers for HT, what extra gear (amp etc)would I need? And how is it set up? Do I add another 2 channel amp? Also, any speaker rec?

No real desire for a centre speaker. Room size is 15*10.

Thanks for any help, Vaughan

[Masterlu]

vvvvvv... Welcome!