Trying to understand music servers

[JemHadar]

Originally Posted by chessman

Randy, I am not computer savvy, but I do have a Silenzio. The short, and potentially unsatisfying, answer is "it depends." One technique is not necessarily better or worse than the other. Implementation and holistic effect matter more than any particular maxim. You can certainly build a dedicated laptop that performs as well or better than a commercial server - if you have the know how, resources, time, and audio experience. Many do. I did not. I opted for a Silenzio/NAS based system for the following reasons: 1) Every multi-use computer I have ever owned has failed over time, so I wanted a dedicated one; 2) all hard drives fail, so I wanted the redundancy of a RAID setup; 3) I wanted other devices in the house to be able to access the media, which a NAS allows; 4) I wanted massive storage ability, which the NAS provides; 5) because I lack tech skills, I wanted a system that was already compatible with my needs: JRiver already installed and configured, NAS already formatted, drivers to talk to my DAC already installed; and 6) I wanted it dead silent, no fan noise, no hard drive noise, no hum. Of course, YMMV. You have a skill set I lacked.

+1 Excellent points

Computer audio is all about convenience. The interface that allows you to navigate your library is key to your experience.

Analog path logic, in most cases, does not apply to digital paths because of transfer protocols.

BTW... USB may be convenient, but AES/EBU would always be my first choice.

Hard drives fail...SSD fail...if one considers the value of ones library, NAS storage is the way to go and a separate scheme to backup the NAS is highly recommended.

[Randy Myers]

I want to thank everyone for their input. It has been great getting the variety of thoughts and opinions.

I went into this thread not totally understanding the reasons/advantages of using a Music Server system versus using a computer to stream music to your sound system. I assumed that at the expense of these specifically built systems they must offer a significant convenience factor and significantly better sound.

I was not understanding the why and how's and I really wanted to know if there was any advantage that should lead me down the path of purchasing such a system. Again I was attempting to learn and understand various methods of playing your digital music collection. If one method was a better choice than another.

Yes I understand and trust network data paths. Yes I understand the chance of data loose is minimal at the most, but reason tells me the straightest and shortest path has the least chance of any bit drops or data loose.

It is becoming very apparent that there is in fact minimal difference in performance from most of the various options. It seems that it is more a factor of ones comfort level and for many the turn key solution works best, not because it offers significantly better performance, but more so because of personal preference.

Again, thank you so much. I continue to want more input and would greatly appreciate the continued discussion on this topic. I find it very enlightening and interesting. I really love to hear others thoughts.

Data retention is always a concern for me therefore backup is always an important consideration. All of my music is copied to five separate hard drives. The laptop that I download music on. I then copy it to the NAS. I then pull the files to the Surface for use with JRiver. The NAS is automatically backed up to an internal 3 TB drive on my desktop computer and to an external drive on the desktop computer also. The external drive is more a factor of convenience than additional security since it is a quick USB 3 drive that can be grabbed and taken with me at a moments notice.

[Antonmb]

As others have pointed out, either route can produce excellent sound. Each has its pros and cons. I have used both and eventually settled on streamers with NAS. I get excellent sound with my Linn streamers, which combine streaming and DAC in one box, and because I'm using NAS with a whole-home network, it's very convenient to be able to put other streaming devices (I have 5 older Squeezebox devices) into any room in the house - in the garage, the bedroom, workshop, study, living room, etc. The best device of course is in the main system, and the sound is as good as anything I've heard from a PC, without having to have a PC in the room. I can use JRiver to manage my library for tagging and organization, but the flexibility of Minimserver on my NAS is excellent, and works with a variety of control points on PC, iPhone and iPad. I may not have perfect hearing anymore, but I have never heard any deficiency that I could attribute to data loss or corruption from the network - if implemented well, this should truly be a non-issue.

I believe one of the advantages of dedicated steaming devices is that, while they're still basically a computer, they only have one task to do and can be optimized to do it very well - no need for video drivers, sound cards, disk controllers, antivirus software, mouse or other input controllers, etc. etc. etc. I have not used a Silenzio, but I suspect its attributes and strengths are similar and would provide excellent results because it's a device purely dedicated to music, not built for any other purpose.

[Cohibaman]

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

It is becoming very apparent that there is in fact minimal difference in performance from most of the various options.

I'm not so sure I'd go that far. From a theoretical standpoint, probably. But hardware implementation digitally AND on the analog side, there's a lot of potential for differences.

Just a few examples:

A poorly chosen, slow computer can cause stuttering & buffering issues.

Improper setup of JRiver will cause performance and sound quality issues.

A poorly designed analog section on a dedicated server will not sound as good as a descent laptop/DAC combo. Conversely a crappy DAC will sound worse than a decent server.

Like any component, it's important to do your homework. If components are properly selected AND properly set up, there should be minimal differences.

But also keep in mind, there are $15k DACs out there that with the proper computer, should blow away any dedicated music server. Then again, there may be some $20k servers that I'm not aware of.

My thought...rather than spending a lot on a complete server package, which could become obsolete when it can't play the latest files, spend the bulk of the $$ on a quality DAC and use a halfway descent laptop or computer that's properly set up. This will provide excellent results sonically, however it may not be the best for convenience. Hence me using my Sony HAP-Z1ES most of the time.

[Randy Myers]

Since the DAC is what is actually converting the signal into the music you hear I would tend to believe the DAC is a huge part in the equation. I now believe that the rest is getting the digital signal to the DAC.

From the research I have done the MXA70 has a good solid DAC. There certainly are better. I would eventually like to get a D100 or D150. I certainly know that there are other companies, some of which I am sure sound even better than the McIntosh. However, getting back into McIntosh was one of the main motivators to get into high end music once again. Being that I am from Binghamton I wanted some of my home town company again ...

Being that I just spent about $8k and my wife got her new sewing machine (in same price range which really was shocking to me), trying to convince her that I need another Mc piece right now may be a challenge ...

[Antonmb]

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

own company again ... my wife got her new sewing machine (in same price range which really was shocking to me)...

Ah, but how does it sound?

[Haurock]

I must admit, digital audio is frustrating to say the least. I'm no techie, and all this talk of NAS, and USB, and DACs and streamers.. just confuses the bejeesus out of me..

If you're music is already on your PC you might want to consider SONOS.

It's a different option, then tying up a PC to your sound system..

[Cohibaman]

Originally Posted by Haurock

I must admit, digital audio is frustrating to say the least. I'm no techie, and all this talk of NAS, and USB, and DACs and streamers.. just confuses the bejeesus out of me.. If you're music is already on your PC you might want to consider SONOS. It's a different option, then tying up a PC to your sound system..

It's super easy: You use the NIC of the NAS to full duplex the data to and from the RJ45 jacks to take full advantage of IPv4 and the 32-bit address.....

Seriously though:

NAS = network attached storage. It's a centralized place to keep all your files. Think of it as an external hard drive with a CAT 5 cable that connects to your router. Now anything that connects to the router network (whether hard wired or WiFi) can connect to the drive.

USB - Universal Serial Bus. A connection to your PC or other computer for nearly every external device; keyboard, mouse, thumb drive, external hard drive, digital camera, etc, or to feed a digital music signal to a DAC.

DAC - Digital to analog converter. Is exactly what it says, it will convert the digital signal it's being fed into analog sound waves of proper amplitude and frequency. Basically it converts 0's and 1's into analog (sound) that your preamp and amp make louder.

Sonos is great and has a great interface, but the sound quality is not on par with high-end audio. They also don't play many hi-rez file types. I use Sonos for my patio but that's about it. There are some companies that perform modifications that will improve their performance, but it won't come close to a decent PC/DAC combo or dedicated high-end music server.

[2fastdriving]

Seems like an opportunity for someone to write a lengthy computer audio how-to here, and make it a sticky. It might already exist, not sure. I've seen similar how-to's on other sites, we should have one E...go for it

[scirica]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

Seems like an opportunity for someone to write a lengthy computer audio how-to here, and make it a sticky. It might already exist, not sure. I've seen similar how-to's on other sites, we should have one E...go for it

I read through this entire thread thinking "Where is -E-??"