Trying to understand music servers

[JemHadar]

Not all computers are created equal. Two things to look out for are the Power Supply for the Audio Output board and or DAC and timing issues aka jitter inducing factors.

Switched Mode Power supplies of computers are noisy affairs and should be shielded from Audio Output boards and or DACs, better served by linear power supplies.

Audio Output Boards and DACS can have have a multitude of jitter counter measures.



I recommend everyone to familiarize themselves with the OSI network layer model...if you understand the model, than you will be able to see through a lot of the smoke and mirror stuff that is propageted on the web regarding the impact of network stuff on audio quality.

[Randy Myers]

I am not necessarily saying that the network path would impact the digital signal. I am only discussing the logic that the more devices a signal travel through the more chance for corruption or loose of signal versus a direct path.

The end result is the signal traveling out of a USB port and into the DAC (in this case the DAC in the McIntosh). As such the logic of going straight from the hard drive (in local computer case a SSD) to the USB. No audio section on the computer is involved since the McIntosh USB drivers step in and direct the signal straight out of JRiver to the USB connection.

Versus the NAS path; the signal coming from a NAS drive which is almost without fail a spinning drive (not as fast and arguably more of a chance for data loose than a SSD), and traveling throughout the network into the controller device which in turn sends the signal out a USB connector to the DAC.

Logic tells me that the local computer has a better chance of getting the digital signal to the USB output and hence the DAC with a lower chance of signal loose. I truly want people to point out if I am missing something here.

[Randy Myers]

Originally Posted by Jem666

Not all computers are created equal. Two things to look out for are the Power Supply for the Audio Output board and or DAC and timing issues aka jitter inducing factors.

Switched Mode Power supplies of computers are noisy affairs and should be shielded from Audio Output boards and or DACs, better served by linear power supplies.

Audio Output Boards and DACS can have have a multitude of jitter counter measures.



I recommend everyone to familiarize themselves with the OSI network layer model...if you understand the model, than you will be able to see through a lot of the smoke and mirror stuff that is propageted on the web regarding the impact of network stuff on audio quality.

This is a good illustration and something that I would recommend understanding. However, in the situation I am discussing the audio section of the computer is not involved nor is the DAC within the computer. The signal is control by JRiver and then sent directly out the USB port (via drivers designed to work with JRiver and send the signal directly out the USB port) into the amplifier where the DAC awaits to process the signal.

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

The end result is the signal traveling out of a USB port and into the DAC (in this case the DAC in the McIntosh). As such the logic of going straight from the hard drive (in local computer case a SSD) to the USB. No audio section on the computer is involved since the McIntosh USB drivers step in and direct the signal straight out of JRiver to the USB connection.

Versus the NAS path; the signal coming from a NAS drive which is almost without fail a spinning drive (not as fast and arguably more of a chance for data loose than a SSD), and traveling throughout the network into the controller device which in turn sends the signal out a USB connector to the DAC.

Logic tells me that the local computer has a better chance of getting the digital signal to the USB output and hence the DAC with a lower chance of signal loose. I truly want people to point out if I am missing something here.

The issues I see here are:
1. Running an SSD into the Mac, one loses the the control/GUI of JRiver. I have yet to see any proprietary GUI in a device that is its equal.
2. Running an SSD into the Mac limits the size of the library significantly.
3. Running an SSD into my renderer and, via JRiver, to a DAC is indistinguishable from running the same file into my renderer over Ethernet (and it's more convenient).

I use external SSDs only for temporary and ad hoc demos/tests.

[chessman]

Randy,

I am not computer savvy, but I do have a Silenzio. The short, and potentially unsatisfying, answer is "it depends." One technique is not necessarily better or worse than the other. Implementation and holistic effect matter more than any particular maxim.

You can certainly build a dedicated laptop that performs as well or better than a commercial server - if you have the know how, resources, time, and audio experience. Many do. I did not.

I opted for a Silenzio/NAS based system for the following reasons:

1) Every multi-use computer I have ever owned has failed over time, so I wanted a dedicated one;

2) all hard drives fail, so I wanted the redundancy of a RAID setup;

3) I wanted other devices in the house to be able to access the media, which a NAS allows;

4) I wanted massive storage ability, which the NAS provides;

5) because I lack tech skills, I wanted a system that was already compatible with my needs: JRiver already installed and configured, NAS already formatted, drivers to talk to my DAC already installed; and

6) I wanted it dead silent, no fan noise, no hard drive noise, no hum.

Of course, YMMV. You have a skill set I lacked.

[Randy Myers]

Hmmmm... JRiver is running on the computer (in this case the Surface) with all of it's control. JRiver is the application that controls the digital music collection and the application that McIntosh recommends throughout their owners manual. So all of the controls are there and JRiver can actually be controlled from the McIntosh remote for quick skip song, etc. So no disadvantage there.

By keeping most if not a majority of your music local does not preclude being able to stream from the NAS. Of course that can be done also from a computer, but if most if not all of your music is stored locally you take network factors (disadvantages) out of the equation.

I appreciate the input, but none of these issues apply to using a computer since all are done on the computer. I have mentioned that JRiver is the GUI on the computer several times. As such music can be pulled locally or through the network. An SSD is really not a limiting factor any more. I can put in excess of 4 TB SSD drives in my laptop if I wanted to. My entire music collection sits at just over 200 GB at this point in time.

Again, is there any real advantage using a music server/controller versus using a computer?

BTW- I really appreciate all input since it allows for a discussion of all factors, many of which I may not have previous considered. So thank you, and please keep any thoughts you come up with coming. They are greatly appreciated!

[Cohibaman]

I'm using a dedicated computer with JRiver & NAS. I'm also using a Sony HAP-Z1ES dedicated server.

They both work great, but I find I use the Sony more because of the iPhone app. JRemote (a third-party app for JRiver) is just ok, while the Sony app is intuitive, well thought out, & extremely responsive.

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by Cohibaman

I'm using a computer with JRiver & NAS. I'm also using a Sony HAP-Z1ES dedicated server.

They both work great, but I find I use the Sony more because of the iPhone app. JRemote (a third-party app for JRiver) is just ok, while the Sony app is intuitive, well thought out, & extremely responsive.

Bingo. Like I was saying, it's mostly a convenience factor. There's a bit more tinkering and frustration involved with using a computer vs. A turn key solution.

[Randy Myers]

Originally Posted by chessman

Randy,

I am not computer savvy, but I do have a Silenzio. The short, and potentially unsatisfying, answer is "it depends." One technique is not necessarily better or worse than the other. Implementation and holistic effect matter more than any particular maxim.

You can certainly build a dedicated laptop that performs as well or better than a commercial server - if you have the know how, resources, time, and audio experience. Many do. I did not.

I opted for a Silenzio/NAS based system for the following reasons:

1) Every multi-use computer I have ever owned has failed over time, so I wanted a dedicated one;

2) all hard drives fail, so I wanted the redundancy of a RAID setup;

3) I wanted other devices in the house to be able to access the media, which a NAS allows;

4) I wanted massive storage ability, which the NAS provides;

5) because I lack tech skills, I wanted a system that was already compatible with my needs: JRiver already installed and configured, NAS already formatted, drivers to talk to my DAC already installed; and

6) I wanted it dead silent, no fan noise, no hard drive noise, no hum.

Of course, YMMV. You have a skill set I lacked.

Excellent post... and I can see exactly where you are coming from!

I think you are hitting the point directly on the head. It is becoming very apparent that there really is no real advantage other than what fulfills your needs, tech abilities, knowledge, and conveniences.

All factors that I have heard can be easily handled on a dedicated computer. Since I have the extra computers around the house (my wife and I have 5 computers now) I can configure and dedicate one solely for the music system.

This does not preclude any of the other factors. I still have the NAS on the network (as of yesterday located in another room so no noise factors apply). I can pull any music from any computer on my network if I want, but having instant access to about 200 GB I can keep any and all music directly connected to the DAC while generating no heat or noise (there are no moving parts what so ever in the Surface other than the fan that never seems to come on when running JRiver exclusively).

[cleeds]

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I am not necessarily saying that the network path would impact the digital signal ...

It sure sounds like that's what you're saying:

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

... I would think a local SSD ... has got to do a better job of getting the digital stream to the DAC than say going through a spinning drive on a NAS through routers, switches, network wiring around the house

Please tell us exactly what your question is. You say you're a software engineer, so I'm puzzled that you have such distrust of a computer network.