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Power Conditioners Voltage regulation to AC Regeneration

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  #181  
Old 01-19-2021, 04:31 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeN View Post
I have three dedicated lines (same phase). Each of my mono Pass Labs amps are plugged directly into the wall (w/ Shunyata power cords). Everything else is plugged into my Shunyata PC which is plugged into the last dedicated line. Works well.
JoeN, I think your arrangement represents a well thought out position on power conditioners. Eventually Mac is going to update the MC2KW. I have thought extensively about buying a trio of them when they come out. However, the main feature of these amps is their overbuilt power supplies (two huge supplies per amp). I own three 1.25 KW's that are plugged into to three Niagara 5000's each with a dedicated 20 amp line.

If I bought the larger amps I don't think I'd use my 5000's and I think each amp needs two outlets. For this reason I'm going to pass on the Mac super amps. I think the stiffer the amp's power supply, the less it needs a power conditioner. All that is needed is a superb power cord. The new Shunyata cord with its built in passive conditioner would be my choice.

One thing often overlooked is the real protection a power conditioner provides against power surges. When I have a power outage the music simply stops. No loud noises at all. The system simply shuts down quietly the generator comes on smoothly and the music returns. A good power conditioner acts as a firewall and provides peace of mind. I have been extremely pleased with the manner in which my AQ Niagara's operate in the event of a power outage to protect my system.

If I do bite for the new super amps I will probably retain my 1.2KW for the sub and go with the 2.1KW's for the mains. I would probably continue to use my 5000's which would allow me not to install extra lines.

Best

Charles

____________________
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house.

Last edited by Charles; 01-19-2021 at 04:59 AM.
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  #182  
Old 01-19-2021, 09:05 AM
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JoeN JoeN is offline
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Those Macs would be awesome to hear. But your system is already over the top. I'm not sure you need them. But if you do acquire them - WOW!!! I have Pass 260.8s and thinking of replacing them with the 600.8s. The 260s work very well, but me likes more power ... Besides the 260s only gives me Class A to 34wpc while the 600s will give Class A to 100wpc.

I agree on PCs and surge protection. It's a must have IMO. I have a whole house surge protection installed at the panel. If I recall correctly you do too. With as much lightning as we get here in FL that was a no brainer for us. It also protects against brown outs.

The new Shunyata's power cords (Omega, etc.) are on my short list as well - including their Everest PC (for my electronics, not amps) which will replace my Shunyata Alpha. I presently have an entire loom of Shunyata. I really enjoy their products.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
JoeN, I think your arrangement represents a well thought out position on power conditioners. Eventually Mac is going to update the MC2KW. I have thought extensively about buying a trio of them when they come out. However, the main feature of these amps is their overbuilt power supplies (two huge supplies per amp). I own three 1.25 KW's that are plugged into to three Niagara 5000's each with a dedicated 20 amp line.

If I bought the larger amps I don't think I'd use my 5000's and I think each amp needs two outlets. For this reason I'm going to pass on the Mac super amps. I think the stiffer the amp's power supply, the less it needs a power conditioner. All that is needed is a superb power cord. The new Shunyata cord with its built in passive conditioner would be my choice.

One thing often overlooked is the real protection a power conditioner provides against power surges. When I have a power outage the music simply stops. No loud noises at all. The system simply shuts down quietly the generator comes on smoothly and the music returns. A good power conditioner acts as a firewall and provides peace of mind. I have been extremely pleased with the manner in which my AQ Niagara's operate in the event of a power outage to protect my system.

If I do bite for the new super amps I will probably retain my 1.2KW for the sub and go with the 2.1KW's for the mains. I would probably continue to use my 5000's which would allow me not to install extra lines.

Best

Charles

____________________
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KWs (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thors Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40L x 15.5W A-frame; max ceiling height 8 min 5; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house.
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  #183  
Old 01-19-2021, 02:34 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeN View Post
Those Macs would be awesome to hear. But your system is already over the top. I'm not sure you need them. But if you do acquire them - WOW!!! I have Pass 260.8s and thinking of replacing them with the 600.8s. The 260s work very well, but me likes more power ... Besides the 260s only gives me Class A to 34wpc while the 600s will give Class A to 100wpc.

I agree on PCs and surge protection. It's a must have IMO. I have a whole house surge protection installed at the panel. If I recall correctly you do too. With as much lightning as we get here in FL that was a no brainer for us. It also protects against brown outs.

The new Shunyata's power cords (Omega, etc.) are on my short list as well - including their Everest PC (for my electronics, not amps) which will replace my Shunyata Alpha. I presently have an entire loom of Shunyata. I really enjoy their products.
My opinion is that class A is the superior of all amplification. 100 watts is the same amount a Relentless supplies. I spoke to Mac about this to see if the MC2KW provided any class A. It does not. Mac's feeling is that the Thermal TraK which is a self biasing transistor is the equivalent of class A, which I do not believe.

I you ask Mac they will tell you there is no difference between Thermal Trak and the older transistor which required an external circuit to remove crossover distortion. But if you ask Mac there's no difference in sound between any of their gear. That's always been Mac's position for as long as I can remember.

I think the new transistor sounds sweeter. However, since the larger amp offers no class A, its advantage is the overbuilt power supply and more power less stress.

With your arrangement you get more class A, the equivalent of a Relntless if you went with the larger amp, a definite reason to move up.

I do think a MC2.1KW will sound significantly better than a 1.25 on my XVX.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 01-19-2021 at 02:39 PM.
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  #184  
Old 01-19-2021, 03:51 PM
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I agree Class A is the absolute best. Unfortunately since I live in FL, I'm sticking with Class A/B - less heat. The 260s and 600s get warm, but not hot.

The Boulder 2150 monos (awesome amps) don't get that hot, but at nearly three feet in depth alone I'd have to take over my wife's dining room. Something just tells me that isn't going to happen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
My opinion is that class A is the superior of all amplification. 100 watts is the same amount a Relentless supplies. I spoke to Mac about this to see if the MC2KW provided any class A. It does not. Mac's feeling is that the Thermal TraK which is a self biasing transistor is the equivalent of class A, which I do not believe.

I you ask Mac they will tell you there is no difference between Thermal Trak and the older transistor which required an external circuit to remove crossover distortion. But if you ask Mac there's no difference in sound between any of their gear. That's always been Mac's position for as long as I can remember.

I think the new transistor sounds sweeter. However, since the larger amp offers no class A, its advantage is the overbuilt power supply and more power less stress.

With your arrangement you get more class A, the equivalent of a Relntless if you went with the larger amp, a definite reason to move up.

I do think a MC2.1KW will sound significantly better than a 1.25 on my XVX.

Best

Charles
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  #185  
Old 01-20-2021, 05:46 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeN View Post
I agree Class A is the absolute best. Unfortunately since I live in FL, I'm sticking with Class A/B - less heat. The 260s and 600s get warm, but not hot.

The Boulder 2150 monos (awesome amps) don't get that hot, but at nearly three feet in depth alone I'd have to take over my wife's dining room. Something just tells me that isn't going to happen.
JoeN, I hear you. One of the reasons I'll probably stick with my 1.25's is they sound fantastic and, while large, they fit easily into the available space. I'm pretty good at arranging gear but I'm stumped at fitting the three piece Mac amps into my available space. It just doesn't feel right. As you know, when you have been doing this for as long as we have you know when it feels right. My current arrangement looks good and sounds great. I have totally adequate power to drive the speaker effortlessly. Yes, I would get a sonic improvement but at too high a price both financially and in the physical rearrangement to my room.

You apparently are in the same dilemma. Put simply, in this life it helps greatly to know when to quit.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 01-20-2021 at 05:48 AM.
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  #186  
Old 03-27-2021, 06:52 PM
kevinj11 kevinj11 is offline
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Default Isolation transformer on amp

Yes, I have my Primaluna Dialogue plugged into a Torus Power isolation transformer. Make sure you have a good wall receptacle (I use Furutech).
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  #187  
Old 03-28-2021, 12:56 AM
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Masterlu Masterlu is online now
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kevinj11... Welcome to AA!
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MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A250 AMPS, C3850 PRE-AMP, DP950 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC950 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-58 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
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Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1/D1 STACK, G1 RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QRs, WW PLATINUM CABLES
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Shunyata Power/Digital cables, HRS Damping Plates, Stillpoints throughout all systems
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  #188  
Old 03-28-2021, 02:20 PM
kevinj11 kevinj11 is offline
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Thanks, Ivan!
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