Accuphase DG58 Necessity or Novelty

[Mattia]

After writing my comparison of the two, I remembered when I asked you about your findings in comparing DC-81 to the newer DAC. It experienced exactly the same differences.

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Mattia

After writing my comparison of the two, I remembered when I asked you about your findings in comparing DC-81 to the newer DAC. It experienced exactly the same differences.

DC-81L.
Yep. And once you get a new generation of speakers (there will be a new 800 Series soon) the differences will be even more prominent.

Martin

[Mattia]

Yes Martin, I am am waiting for the new generation "800 Series", then I'll decide for the upgrade.
To buy right now is not the wiser move I think...

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Mattia

Yes Martin, I am am waiting for the new generation "800 Series", then I'll decide for the upgrade.
To buy right now is not the wiser move I think...

AFAIK the new 800 model will not be on sale before April 2016. And the 803 will have the same 'head' as the 800 / 802.

Buying now might allow you to get a second hand or even new 800 Diamond or 802 Diamond at a considerably reduced price.

Martin

[raidho]

AFAIK the new 800 model will not be on sale before April 2016. And the 803 will have the same 'head' as the 800 / 802.

Buying now might allow you to get a second hand or even new 800 Diamond or 802 Diamond at a considerably reduced price.

Martin

Hello Martin,
I had a lot of B&W speakers and each new series sounds damn better than the last.

I prefer to buy a lower model (x02di) in place of an old 800DI!

That's sure the new series in Europa will be available not before 2° quarter from 2016 and for "a music lover" is a long waiting time....

[raidho]

AFAIK the new 800 model will not be on sale before April 2016. And the 803 will have the same 'head' as the 800 / 802.

Buying now might allow you to get a second hand or even new 800 Diamond or 802 Diamond at a considerably reduced price.

Martin

Hello Martin,
I had a lot of B&W speakers and each new series sounds damn better than the last.

I prefer to buy a lower model (x02di) in place of an old 800DI!

That's sure the new series in Europa will be available not before 2° quarter from 2016 and for "a music lover" is a long waiting time....

[Mattia]

Martin

loudspeakers for me is a purchase that is a bit of a logistical nightmare, so it must be as future proof as possibile. That is why I am waiting for the new "80x", even if I could get some good discounts on current models.

Regarding acoustic, in my 16 m2 audio room, I wonder if a smaller, but nevertheless very high quality speaker, would be sufficient or even better than 800/802.
Something like what Wilson Audio created with the Sabrina model would maybe be nice, maybe these new 803 will be exactly that. Or maybe I'll take directly the Sabrina route. If only I could ear Wilson Audio...
raidho when can I come ear your Sasha?

I am also considering a pair of 805-like and a pair of sub, cut-off at 42 Hz, so maybe I could perfectly tame my 40Hz modal by placing them... but ideally I prefer two full range speakers.



Returning to DG-58, I'm now comparing and tuning the results using REW and an Umik-1 mic (with measured calibration file).
In essence, at same level and exact same position, I found that in the over 5khz range the Accuphase mic seems to "ear" more than the Umik-1. At mid to low frequency, the results are essentially comparable. Now I am not sure witch one is correct. Maybe I'll try to measure in REW with a better mic. Did you try anything like that?

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Mattia

Returning to DG-58, I'm now comparing and tuning the results using REW and an Umik-1 mic (with measured calibration file).
In essence, at same level and exact same position, I found that in the over 5khz range the Accuphase mic seems to "ear" more than the Umik-1. At mid to low frequency, the results are essentially comparable. Now I am not sure witch one is correct. Maybe I'll try to measure in REW with a better mic. Did you try anything like that?

Regarding the new B&W 800 series please all refer to the following thread:
http://www.audioaficionado.org/b-w-s...d-if-year.html

Before REW version 5.01 beta 24, I could not get to work the software with my multichannel RME audio interfaces (Fireface UC and HDSPe MADIface).
Now the multichannel support works. As mic I use one of my DPA 4006TL with nose cone.

In addition, I can use my old Tact RCS 2.0 with it's own mic with calibration sheet and my NTI-Audio XL2 with mic M2230.

Here some basic influences on measurement results:

1) Measurement methods: DG-58 uses warp frequencies, REW uses sweep frequencies, NTI normally works with pink noise and Tact uses impulses.
Each method has it's advantages and disadvantages and there may be differences in the results based on the method used.

2) Mic frequency response: frequency response deviations can be compensated for, if they are known and the measurement system provides a way for compensation.
But some mics promise a frequency response they can not deliver (e.g. Behringer ECM-8000 for less than CHF 85.-).

3) Mic directivity pattern: Mics with smaller diaphragms show the required more perfect omni characteristic, but by making a diaphragm smaller, noise is increased.
(My DPA 4006TL has a somewhat larger diaphragm with less noise and the nose cone provides for an almost perfect omni pattern. But the price is above CHF 2'100.-).

4) The way the software 'interprets' (filters) the measurement. Unfortunately manufacturers are very reluctant to disclose more detailed information.

5) And don't forget what all engineers know: who measures a lot, measures a lot of sh...

Martin

[Mattia]

Thank you Martin for the very precise mic and measure methods explanation, but in the end I didn't understood if now you have measured the DG-58 results

Regarding your good points 4) and 5), in my humble opinion they are somewhat correlated.

DG-58 is not sufficiently explained by Accuphase in his inner workings, under the hood.
So one must try his best (in my case not a lot I admit ) if he wants to know. And I think that the best way to enjoy and utilise something at 100%, is to understand it somewhat more than (in the example of the DG-58 manual): "The Smooth setting takes into account the room and speakers..."

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Mattia

Thank you Martin for the very precise mic and measure methods explanation, but in the end I didn't understood if now you have measured the DG-58 results

I did some 'control measurement' with REW and I saw, that there was some room for improvement of the DG-58 standard compensation, i.e. somewhat flatten the curve with the DG-58 EQ section and then compare the results by listening, which will be a pretty slow and time consuming process. I did not proceed any further then.

In the meantime, the upgrade bug has bitten me, so I will do a more thorough optimization, once the new pre has arrived (in hopefully about two weeks time).

Martin