DSD - (Don't Stream Digital)

[o0OBillO0o]

Here are my observations:

-Most releases are 24/96 Pulse Code Modulation up-converted/trans-coded to DSD Pulse Width Modulation. i.e. The Doors "L.A. Woman" was 24/96 DVDA recording from the master tapes.

The surround sound program on the Doors SACDs comes from the original 96K, 24-bit files mixed and mastered by Bruce Botnick for the DVD Audio Doors/Perception release. Those mixes were made from the original one-inch, eight track, 15 i.p.s. analog master tapes. For the SACDs, the mixes were then up-sampled without filters to DSD using the Weiss Saracon format converter and authored by Gus Skinas at the Super Audio Center

-There are few releases that were recorded straight to DSD [ Record to DSD pass through an analog console/control board, editied and recorded back to DSD] The Bluecoast recordings are fantastic - but who cares, new and pop music doesn't come from them.

-Anything that is upconverted to DSD has a "Euphonic Distortion" aka a pleasing sound that perhaps is added to the over all presentation. a kin to Tubes or Analog recordings. I have upconverted two or three CDs to DSD , using Korg's Audiogate, and played them back in my PS3, using analog cables, and as DSD files and in both instances I observed/heard something that I liked. Now, It could just be the music, but it was subtle and different.

-PCM 24/96 and higher is very enjoyable, and I gave up on trying to distinguish the major difference between it and 24/192, still no one wants to feel like they have less or missing out on the last detail.

[junker]

So far both Ayre's, Schiit's, and Bryston's position on DSD have alienated me as a consumer. And trying to minimize the format or make it a format war are counter-productive. Either stay out of it, or just use your energy to DO it. Otherwise, don't at your own peril because most everyone else has made it happen.

The only product manufacturer that I knew who could tell the market what they wanted was the late Steve Jobs.

[junker]

And I like how in these articles they always leave out the inconvenient fact that PCM has ALOT of noise above F2/2 (Nyquist) requiring a brick wall filter, and that just about any DAC still has a late-analog filter to roll off the supersonics - this is both PCM and DSD. Both. If analog filtered supersonics bother you then do DSD128 or upsample to it. Easy.

This is a more fair comparison if you want to compare to 24/192 or DXD. Does Bryston do DXD? DSD128, 24/192, and DXD are the future high-res formats.

[James Tanner - Bryston]

Originally Posted by junker

And I like how in these articles they always leave out the inconvenient fact that PCM has ALOT of noise above F2/2 (Nyquist) requiring a brick wall filter, and that just about any DAC still has a late-analog filter to roll off the supersonics - this is both PCM and DSD. Both. If analog filtered supersonics bother you then do DSD128 or upsample to it. Easy.

This is a more fair comparison if you want to compare to 24/192 or DXD. Does Bryston do DXD? DSD128, 24/192, and DXD are the future high-res formats.

I disagree that we should stay away from discussing these issues - factual information enables everyone.

james

[James Tanner - Bryston]

James,

I am not saying this chart is accurate, I Am reading that almost none of them stream Native DSD OUT...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...qQTNfVUE#gid=0


So the real question is, and again this chart maybe wrong; Are any of the units that aren't licensed for DSD, really outputting DSD ?

It is like when I was at DENON and learned that CD ripping is NOT TRUE Bit for Bit, as everyone thinks because of the use of SCUMS (Serial Copy Management), which is almost, but not quite allowing everything to pass.

Wayne

[doggiehowser]

Originally Posted by James Tanner - Bryston

James,

I am not saying this chart is accurate, I Am reading that almost none of them stream Native DSD OUT...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...qQTNfVUE#gid=0


So the real question is, and again this chart maybe wrong; Are any of the units that aren't licensed for DSD, really outputting DSD ?

It is like when I was at DENON and learned that CD ripping is NOT TRUE Bit for Bit, as everyone thinks because of the use of SCUMS (Serial Copy Management), which is almost, but not quite allowing everything to pass.

Wayne

Not sure what your point is, James/Wayne. DSD out is only needed if you are trying to record DSD to your computer/another machine.

All you need on a DAC is DSD over PCM support (DOP) which passes DSD direct to the DAC and decoded accordingly. Some like the MSB will convert DSD back to PCM (because their DAC is R2R) while others like those with ESS Sabre 32 or those custom DSD DACs like EMM/Playback/Chord will decode the DSD direct.

[James Tanner - Bryston]

Originally Posted by doggiehowser

Not sure what your point is, James/Wayne. DSD out is only needed if you are trying to record DSD to your computer/another machine.

All you need on a DAC is DSD over PCM support (DOP) which passes DSD direct to the DAC and decoded accordingly. Some like the MSB will convert DSD back to PCM (because their DAC is R2R) while others like those with ESS Sabre 32 or those custom DSD DACs like EMM/Playback/Chord will decode the DSD direct.

Thanks!

james

[asiufy]

Originally Posted by doggiehowser

Not sure what your point is, James/Wayne. DSD out is only needed if you are trying to record DSD to your computer/another machine.

All you need on a DAC is DSD over PCM support (DOP) which passes DSD direct to the DAC and decoded accordingly. Some like the MSB will convert DSD back to PCM (because their DAC is R2R) while others like those with ESS Sabre 32 or those custom DSD DACs like EMM/Playback/Chord will decode the DSD direct.

Hi,

I've heard from Larry at MSB directly that the MSB does not convert to PCM. He wouldn't tell me how they did it, all he said is that it was done entirely via software, since their hardware (DAC) was already technically capable of DSD.


alexandre

[doggiehowser]

Originally Posted by asiufy

Hi,

I've heard from Larry at MSB directly that the MSB does not convert to PCM. He wouldn't tell me how they did it, all he said is that it was done entirely via software, since their hardware (DAC) was already technically capable of DSD.


alexandre

I got the info from the MSB white paper.

The MSB DAC is fundamentally a ladder R2R DAC (ie true multi bit PCM). IMHO that's not a bad thing. R2R DACs have a certain sound/signature that some find quite pleasing. I use an Ayon CD5S which uses the PCM1704 stacked (4 IIRC) for PCM signals but I do prefer how my EMM and Playback sounds.

The paper says DSD 1 bit 2.8MHz gets converted to something like 24 or was it 26 bit 1.4MHzkHz internally inside the MSB DAC, which is the native resolution of MSB.

ps sorry to Bryston for the OT.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by o0OBillO0o

I understand the need for capability.

Have you heard more than a hand full if albums, not originally in PCM, that are in the DSD format? Rhetoric - there are so few, it's hard to invest, even as a consumer , in technology at this time.

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado

Personally, I disagree. There are more than 125 DSD albums on SuperHiRez in just the last coupla weeks, and personally I'd like to own all of them. And this doesn't include the content from Channel Classics, Downloads Now, etc.