AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Audio & Video > Home Theater

Home Theater Novice to Sublime

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-12-2013, 10:40 PM
GHW GHW is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 17
Default 2 channel and HT set-up?

Hi All,

I have question for those of you much more up wth the whole HT thing than me ( ie probably everyone)
I'm putting together a HT but wanting to incorporate 2 channel as this will be used most of the time.
I'm planning on getting a reciever with pre-outs, going from the main outs into a Linn Majik Dsm hdmi which can apparently have one of the inputs selected for HT bypass? this will go to my main amp(s) yet tbd but something to drive some newly aquired Wilson Sasha's.
My idea was a sort of " cake and eat it to " by having everything bar the Linn, amp(s) and sub switch off for two channel then everything else switch on and use the lfe out to power the sub which is a Martin Logan Depth i with capability for using more than one input.
This will all be controlled by Control4 automation so there's no problem with switching etc to achieve this.
The thing I can't work out is the conflict with lfe and another input on the sub if the Linn is being used in both systems?
When in 2 channel this will be no prob but when in HT both the lfe and rca or speaker input will recieve signals so surely will cause a problem ? any ideas how to get around this or will I be forced to just not use the sub for 2 channel listening? any suggestions would be most welcome.
I haven't decided on the other equipment yet relating to the HT bar the screen will be screen innovations.
cheers for any suggestions how to make this frankenstein system work !
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-12-2013, 11:44 PM
doggiehowser's Avatar
doggiehowser doggiehowser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,411
Default

I don't know about your Martin Logans but my Thiel SS2.2/SS2 subwoofers have dual inputs that work independently - one for augmenting the main speakers and a LFE from a HT processor/AVR.

The AVR in fact sees the front L/R channels as a full range speaker in this configuration.

FWIW I have heard the Martin Logans in 2 channel mode and it works quite well but IMHO it isn't quite a "movie" subwoofer. For that matter, neither were my Thiels. I ended up just using the Thiels for stereo mode and got myself a third subwoofer (a JL f113) that is used exclusively for movies.

Now that JL has introduced their E series of subwoofers, I think it's a no brainer. Just got a E112. I don't use the f113's ARO/integration features for my main stereos anyway) and the E112s are designed to be used with an AVR/prepro so it drops the ARO functions.

Last edited by doggiehowser; 10-12-2013 at 11:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:21 AM
o0OBillO0o o0OBillO0o is offline
Rebellious!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Massachusetts!
Posts: 5,179
Default

Don't do it. HT has a different requirement for set up that is never compatible with stereo.

HT's focus is special effects and loud/high output levels. 3 identical front speakers, etc..

Music's focus is to reproduce the artist as a accurately/musically as possible.

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:34 AM
BlueFox BlueFox is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,235
Default

If you are just going to use an AVR as a pre-amp then get a dedicated HT pre.
__________________
Bud
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:38 AM
doggiehowser's Avatar
doggiehowser doggiehowser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by o0OBillO0o View Post
Don't do it. HT has a different requirement for set up that is never compatible with stereo.

HT's focus is special effects and loud/high output levels. 3 identical front speakers, etc..

Music's focus is to reproduce the artist as a accurately/musically as possible.

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado
I disagree. With a bit of thought and planning, you can integrate HT and stereo setups easily.

My main speakers are placed like they would in a stereo setup, with a timbre matched center speaker in between, and flanked by stereo subs (for music only). The monoblock amps are placed behind the speakers, again like I would have done for a stereo setup.

I put my other electronics behind the sofa, away from the front of the room (again like I would have done for a stereo setup)

I also use timbre matched surround speakers everywhere else though this isn't as important unless you like 5.1 music. There's a JL subwoofer behind the sofa that's only in use when I watch movies.

If you calibrate your system, you will find that there's really not a lot of loud SPL from most speakers (not even the L and R) but primarily in the centre and subwoofer. That's why it's useful to get a subwoofer that can handle that.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-13-2013, 11:42 AM
sleepysurf sleepysurf is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa Bay area
Posts: 65
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by o0OBillO0o View Post
Don't do it. HT has a different requirement for set up that is never compatible with stereo...
I disagree as well, especially for those of us without the option for a dedicated listening and/or home theater room. My family room setup is 95% two-channel listening, but pretty good for home theater as well. I feed the main pre-outs from my Denon receiver into the Home Theater bypass of my C-J CT-5 preamp, with a ML Motif center that is a decent tonal match for my ML Summits. My rear surrounds are in-ceiling Boston Acoustic dipoles (not ideal tonal match, but OK for movies). I'll eventually upgrade to ML in-ceilings. I'm planning on adding two subs (at mid sides of room) for use with both 2 channel and home theater. Just like Doggiehowser, I'll use subs that have a separate LFE input for home theater use. I'm seriously considering the new ML BalancedForce 210's, which I can "dial in" using the ML/Paradigm "Perfect Bass Kit" plus downloadable custom low-pass filters to match my Summits.

Only downside is that it's too complex for my wife/kids to use (especially to watch a movie). Upside is that it provides "job security" for me!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-13-2013, 11:49 AM
chessman's Avatar
chessman chessman is offline
From the BAT cave ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 11,697
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiehowser View Post
I disagree. With a bit of thought and planning, you can integrate HT and stereo setups easily.

My main speakers are placed like they would in a stereo setup, with a timbre matched center speaker in between, and flanked by stereo subs (for music only). The monoblock amps are placed behind the speakers, again like I would have done for a stereo setup.

I put my other electronics behind the sofa, away from the front of the room (again like I would have done for a stereo setup)

I also use timbre matched surround speakers everywhere else though this isn't as important unless you like 5.1 music. There's a JL subwoofer behind the sofa that's only in use when I watch movies.

If you calibrate your system, you will find that there's really not a lot of loud SPL from most speakers (not even the L and R) but primarily in the centre and subwoofer. That's why it's useful to get a subwoofer that can handle that.
I do essentially the same thing.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-13-2013, 11:22 PM
o0OBillO0o o0OBillO0o is offline
Rebellious!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Massachusetts!
Posts: 5,179
Default

Its fine to disagree, but I feel the the above posters mentioned their challenges in their posts-- to which I feel are true challenges. I use stereo only for HT, because its easy, sounds great, allows money to be spent on 2 channels instead of five, and the transition to music listening is transparent. I will put together a separate home theater. I feel that purpose built systems have specific compromises. I.e. No windows, theater seats, and identical main speakers (LCR) In other words the more you try and do it all with one, the more you compromise your specific talents/goals.

Edit: research the doctrine from Dolby, SMPTE, and Grammy-- Although they/these are guides, they are based on engineering and empirical study. Basically, its supported, peer,reviewed information, not the internet. Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

Last edited by o0OBillO0o; 10-13-2013 at 11:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-14-2013, 01:01 AM
enit's Avatar
enit enit is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GHW View Post
Hi All, I have question for those of you much more up wth the whole HT thing than me ( ie probably everyone) I'm putting together a HT but wanting to incorporate 2 channel as this will be used most of the time. I'm planning on getting a reciever with pre-outs, going from the main outs into a Linn Majik Dsm hdmi which can apparently have one of the inputs selected for HT bypass? this will go to my main amp(s) yet tbd but something to drive some newly aquired Wilson Sasha's. My idea was a sort of " cake and eat it to " by having everything bar the Linn, amp(s) and sub switch off for two channel then everything else switch on and use the lfe out to power the sub which is a Martin Logan Depth i with capability for using more than one input. This will all be controlled by Control4 automation so there's no problem with switching etc to achieve this. The thing I can't work out is the conflict with lfe and another input on the sub if the Linn is being used in both systems? When in 2 channel this will be no prob but when in HT both the lfe and rca or speaker input will recieve signals so surely will cause a problem ? any ideas how to get around this or will I be forced to just not use the sub for 2 channel listening? any suggestions would be most welcome. I haven't decided on the other equipment yet relating to the HT bar the screen will be screen innovations. cheers for any suggestions how to make this frankenstein system work !
GHW,

Technically, when you set your front speakers to Large on your processor/receiver, an L/R output as well as the sub output will be channeled to the L/R. So if you had your subs on stereo, using this method is fine.

What's the point of subwoofers then? Well, subwoofers allow you correct placement of satellite speakers, and an optimum position (you know the one where you place your sub on your listening position and walk around the room to listen for the best response? Or the one where you go on all fours and crawl around crap?) placement of subwoofer since it is detached from the speaker (this is the actual intent for setting small subwoofers on the receiver/ processor). Since you are doing the reverse, putting sub to join with the speaker, it's fine to use Large speaker settings in the speaker configuration.

If you are thinking of double connection, you should set the front speakers to Small, and join another connection to the sub from the processor/ receiver.

To me, since now you know the function of the Large speaker setting, you now know running extra cables are for duplicate functions.

With that said, I always prefer 2 subs for non-localization of low frequencies, and for even distribution throughout the room. Not for the sake of SPL.

Hope this answers your question.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-14-2013, 01:38 AM
o0OBillO0o o0OBillO0o is offline
Rebellious!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Massachusetts!
Posts: 5,179
Default

Enit, careful, there is LARGE and LARGE + LFE, where, as you know, the latter routes LFE to the left and right speakers. Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:43 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video