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  #41  
Old 11-16-2020, 03:46 PM
2fastdriving 2fastdriving is offline
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Originally Posted by tdelahanty View Post
My intent is not to discount the usefulness of the G01 clock but I would like to see a comparison of the K01x's internal clock specs to the G01 specs.
You can see on the esoteric website the differences in accuracy. 0.5 ppm vs .00005 ppm

quite a huge difference. Not sure what other measurements are important, maybe phase noise. Not sure if there is a spec on that.
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  #42  
Old 11-16-2020, 03:59 PM
SAM992 SAM992 is offline
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You can see on the esoteric website the differences in accuracy. 0.5 ppm vs .00005 ppm

quite a huge difference. Not sure what other measurements are important, maybe phase noise. Not sure if there is a spec on that.
And the thing that many miss is the recent science on human hearing which has found that human hearing is far more sensitive to timing than amplitude with regards to sound waves, but how a more accurate timing with regards to PCM (jitter) is perceived isn't well understood ... that said, I know I can tell a big difference between when I use the Rossini with the clock, as when I'm streaming from the network, as compared to when I use the DAC with my CD Transport and the clock is the one in my Accuphase DP560 now, because the clock is always supposed to be linked to the source.
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  #43  
Old 11-16-2020, 07:17 PM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Originally Posted by SAM992 View Post
I enjoyed the review, even though I'm a dCS user, but I also use the external clock and the difference is very noticeable and in a good way.. hard to go back to a no-clock experience once you have added it.
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  #44  
Old 11-16-2020, 08:56 PM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
You can see on the esoteric website the differences in accuracy. 0.5 ppm vs .00005 ppm

quite a huge difference. Not sure what other measurements are important, maybe phase noise. Not sure if there is a spec on that.
They don't publish the most important specs that contribute to the calc of effective jitter, or lack thereof;

Phase noise measure at 1, 10, and 100 Hz
Allen Variance and Deviation.

Long term stability (the PPM, PPB) much less important. Short term stability from second to second is more important.
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  #45  
Old 11-16-2020, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
They don't publish the most important specs that contribute to the calc of effective jitter, or lack thereof;

Phase noise measure at 1, 10, and 100 Hz
Allen Variance and Deviation.

Long term stability (the PPM, PPB) much less important. Short term stability from second to second is more important.


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  #46  
Old 11-16-2020, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
You can see on the esoteric website the differences in accuracy. 0.5 ppm vs .00005 ppm

quite a huge difference. Not sure what other measurements are important, maybe phase noise. Not sure if there is a spec on that.
Agreed, that is a significant difference!
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  #47  
Old 11-16-2020, 09:52 PM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
They don't publish the most important specs that contribute to the calc of effective jitter, or lack thereof;

Phase noise measure at 1, 10, and 100 Hz
Allen Variance and Deviation.

Long term stability (the PPM, PPB) much less important. Short term stability from second to second is more important.
If you want to know what goes into the calculation of effective jitter, check out www.jitterlabs.com or the downloadable assets at https://abracon.com.

I've seen this testing in action for various industry Rb and OCXO based popular offerings and the test methodology and results are a learning experience and surprise in and of themselves.
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  #48  
Old 11-17-2020, 11:42 AM
TOGA TOGA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdelahanty View Post
My intent is not to discount the usefulness of the G01 clock but I would like to see a comparison of the K01x's internal clock specs to the G01 specs.
I believe all internal clocks are based on inferior VCXO. So external
with better OCXO, or Rb type.
I think it is all about the final sound that we hear rather than looking on
just the noise spec.
But I did see the spec of each clocks, from some forum. it is in a table may be posted by Wizard.

Toga
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  #49  
Old 11-17-2020, 11:46 AM
TOGA TOGA is offline
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Originally Posted by thyname View Post
Can you please elaborate on this? Thank you
Esoteric spec require sinewave clock input , but MUTEC outputs in squarewave. So I don't thing it is best compatible to Esoteric.
However, MUTEC replied that it actually is better and causing less jitter
to input squarewave despite the sinewave requirement on Esoteric. They also
said lots of their customers use MUTEC REF10 with Esoteric with better result.

Toga
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  #50  
Old 11-17-2020, 11:48 AM
TOGA TOGA is offline
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Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
Hello,...I have owned 2 Rb oscillator clocks from Esoteric and 1 older dual Rb-OCXO Cybershaft model,...all quite a few years ago.

I have found for many years that OCXO implementations give the most musical and precise music results. Many others have too.

Rather than retype many pages of writeups by various people as well as my own on the topic spanning many years, I would suggest you search the following places...

This forum
Audiogon forums
Computer Audiophile, now called Audiophile Style

As a start and look for phases "OCX", "parts per billion" and similar things. I know for certain there are many pages of feedback out there to help you on this topic.

BTW,...Esoteric Grandioso G1 should be added to your 10 Mhz list as it is a fine unit. Personally other than aesthethic match with the K1X, I would suggest OP21A Cybershaft for performance, musical result and lower price combined with a killer OXCO design.
Thanks and I believe I read most of those already. But still, the best way
for me is to hear op21A for myself. It's weird that I prefer sound of G02X more
than Mutec 120SE with on both soTM and Acrolink DA5100MEXCEL 75 BNC cables. I felt Mutec was dry sounding on my K1X.

TOGA
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