Help with a beginner Vinyl system

[mulveling]

Here's my vinyl success story: I started in 2007 with a 1980's SOTA Star III and Fidelity Research FR64fx arm that was on consignment by my dealer for $2K. Added a brand new Benz Glider L2 ($800), a used Dynavector P75 phono stage ($400), and a new VPI HW16.5 cleaner ($550). Totaled $3750; it blew me away and blew away my Meridian G08 CD player at the time - at a very similar total cash outlay. I was initially looking to spend around half of that amount, e.g. a $1.1 K Project, but I splurged and am ever glad I did. I've been a vinyl junkie ever since. I've probably been at least 90% vinyl and 10% digital since then.

Starting from scratch today, in the $1-3K range, in new tables I'd be looking at a Rega (at least a P3, but preferable P6 or more) or SOTA Jewel/Satellite. Probably the SOTA because of my good experience. Going used or refurb (SOTA sells refurbs) will obviously get you more table for your money. Just make sure you buy local or from someone who knows how to ship it.

My old dealer was very experienced and did my initial setup on the Benz Glider, so no issues there. But I did learn on my own eventually, which is a lot more fun - you've just gotta be patient and persistent there.

[Poppyhome]

Originally Posted by The Lost Bears

One of the problems is all the variables. You can't really demo a phono preamp without a table. And you can't demo a table without a phono preamp. And then there is the cart. Every dealer has different tables and preamps. It is very hard to make useful comparisons.

I prefer listening to the music instead of worrying about system matching. That's one reason I went Gold Note, and take away all the variables of component matching.
Turntable, tonearm, cartridge, phono preamp, are all matched for perfect symmetry, with many parts made and assembled in house. They have been an OEM for many years and recently began making there own brand.

Ron

[doggiehowser]

Hope I am not too late for the party...

Since the Ref6 doesn't have a phono preamp, you will need one. The matching Galileo preamp did have a damn good phono preamp built in - but that's water under the bridge

Here are my contenders for good bang for the buck phono preamps.

MoFi StudioPhono - don't let the entry level price fool you. It is designed by a guy who knows what he is doing (Tim de Paravicini) who has worked on EAR Yoshino, Luxman - and was responsible for the recording/mixing desk at Mobile Fidelity. That phono preamp will work with MM carts but provide loading options that will accomodate MC carts as well. Far more flexible than even my ARC Reference 3 Phono.

Here's a review
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/mob...o-phono-stage/

If you can spring for more - you will love the new VTL TP2.5i. Not the easiest to tweak - requiring you to remove the chassis cover and fiddle with jumper settings but easily one of the most musical, dynamic, engaging sounding phono preamps I have used. And that includes the Reference 3 from ARC. The new 2.5i is more than just a label change - it now includes a tube MC gain stage as well - not just solid state.

Now turntables.

For someone who isn't sure about vinyl or doesn't have a lot to start with, maybe don't go crazy in the hobby just yet. (what I am saying - you are in this asylum.. of course you will go crazy )

But my bang for the buck turntable goes to
Audio Technica LP7

Hard to imagine what it packs for the price - but belt drive with electronic controlled speed setting for 33/45rpm, a nice damped platter, a really good tonearm with a smooth continuous adjustment VTA dial, and a good cart.. with a built in (defeatable) phono preamp so you can get playing out of the box if you don't have a phono preamp or one built into your current integrated/preamp. The VTA adjustment is what got me!! The ClearAudio VTA option costs half of the LP7 in Australia! :P The phono preamp built in isnt all that great but it works and best of all, you can turn it off when you get a good phono preamp.

MoFi StudioDesk+
A bit pricier than the LP7 and lacks things like VTA adjustment or speed controls but made in the US and has a beautiful cart and tonearm. Designed by Alan Perkins (Spiral Groove) so think of this as what would happen if Alan Perkins decided to create an entry level deck.

ClearAudio Concept (available in various options like MM/MC, different arms and even built in phono preamp)
If you have never ever set up a turntable before, the ClearAudio Concept is what I'd get. Cartridge prefitted and even the counterweight is adjusted and locked in from the factory so all you have to do is unpack - slip on the belt and slide the platter on (be careful not to drop it - same as with other tables). Dead easy. Sounds good too and that magnetic suspended tonearm looks sooo sooo sexy. Also comes with a good MM (or MC if you option it up) cart, speed controls.

VPI makes some entry level turntables too with everything prefitted but I am not familiar with those. But might be worth having a look.

ps don't overlook having electronic speed controls at the touch of a button. A lot of the good new re-pressings are done in 45rpm so it is not just for old singles. And some of the turntables are a pain to change speeds on (take off platter, slide belt from small pulley to big pulley, put back platter). Plus you shouldn't really be touching the belt with your bare hands.

Hope this helps.

Phew

[Mikado463]

Originally Posted by W9TR

One thing I’ll emphasize is that buying gently used TT, arm and preamp provides a value multiplier that’s hard to beat. A lot of people trade up so gently used gear tends to be available.

I do buy cartridges new because they can be damaged by improper handling and not show any visible sign of abuse.

If you have a dealer nearby, lean on their expertise, especially if they can pull a package together for you and set it up properly. Setup is really important and there is no substitute for experience.

all good advice Tom !

Originally Posted by The Lost Bears

I was thinking of selling the Fosgate and decided to have another listen. It really is an excellent phono stage. Even with my Ref Phono 2se I still don't have the heart to sell it. After I had gotten my table I brought home every phono preamp I could borrow. The Fosgate Signature was by far my favorite.

agreed and mine still resides in my system today, IMO to beat the Fosgate one needs to spend multiples more $$

Originally Posted by mulveling

Going used or refurb (SOTA sells refurbs) will obviously get you more table for your money. Just make sure you buy local or from someone who knows how to ship it.

and with that being said if you're buying used and it's gonna be shipped be sure that it's done so in it's original packaging. Turntables /arms shipped otherwise most often times are damaged.

[The Lost Bears]

Being setup properly is very important. Even shipped in the original packaging, rough handling during shipping can put a table out of adjustment. My ClearAudio dealer always checks the factory setup tables to see that they are still setup properly.

I would buy from a local dealer who will check everything and setup the table. Even if you buy a factory setup table/arm/cart package. Check if you can find anything used at a dealer. You may find a table that was a trade in by someone upgrading. Even if you have to travel a little ways it is worth it. When I bought my Ref Phono 2se I traveled 200 miles to pick it up instead of having it shipped.

[mulveling]

How could I forget the ClearAudio Concept mentioned above! That's another great table and a good value. I definitely feel it's best to start out at least around that level of quality (heck, why not jump to the Concept Wood?), rather than starting with lesser gear and simply treading water until you give up or finally plunk down for more serious kit.

And yes, definitely agree with the need for quality FACTORY packing, and a knowledgeable seller, as prerequisites for shipment.

[clpetersen]

This is a very good thread - many informed and thoughtful opinions.

I/we don't have the dedicated space or equipment set-up as the original poster, Pete (pete6737), but often kick around the idea of vinyl. Our youngest has vinyl in a bedroom system - and has piqued our curiosity.

In our case, i would not be looking to best our digital sound quality, but would like good sound quality nonetheless. Similar budget as OP.

Here is the question, and I expect the answer will vary -
Overall, do you enjoy the vinyl experience over digital, even with the headaches of vinyl? Does the extra effort cause you to be more involved or just annoyed?

[audioguy3107]

Originally Posted by clpetersen

Here is the question, and I expect the answer will vary -
Overall, do you enjoy the vinyl experience over digital, even with the headaches of vinyl? Does the extra effort cause you to be more involved or just annoyed?

I’ll give you my opinion.......to me it makes the experience more worthwhile, almost like an event. For example, when I put on a live show, let’s say Jimi Hendrix Winterland.....spinning the record makes it more palpable, almost like you’re sitting down at a real concert the sound is so lifelike. I just don’t get the same experience clicking a button on an iPad or MacBook Pro not to mention the sound quality (in my experience) is virtually always better with analog. I like the extra effort since it makes the experience more worthwhile to me, almost like I’ve invested something which makes sense when you think about the cost of some of the gear on this forum. BTW, I don’t have any vinyl headaches other than the occasional warped record or something not pressed perfectly but I’ll tell you that with my experience, they are few and far between. The sound more than makes up for this rare occurrence.

- Buck

[mulveling]

Originally Posted by clpetersen

Here is the question, and I expect the answer will vary -
Overall, do you enjoy the vinyl experience over digital, even with the headaches of vinyl? Does the extra effort cause you to be more involved or just annoyed?

Vinyl wins. No comparison, not even remotely close, lol. Taking on the burdens of vinyl simply felt very natural to me. I never get annoyed with it; ironically I get way WAY more annoyed with digital. I'm a 39 year old computer programmer too, so it' not like I have a problem with technology & computers, and it's also not like I'm some retiree with a 20,000 LP collection from decades ago.

I pushed a bit back into digital again a few years back - went through some decent-but-not extravagant DACs and digital accessories, including a Schiit Yggdrasil, but it simply doesn't hold my interest in the long run.

[Mikado463]

Originally Posted by mulveling

Vinyl wins. No comparison, not even remotely close, lol.

yes, exactly ......... LOL !! your statement above that is. To say there is no comparison is simply ridiculous.