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Subwoofers 80hz and Down under!

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  #1  
Old 12-18-2021, 07:00 PM
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dkorbal dkorbal is offline
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Default Smaller sub recommendation

I’m considering purchasing two Rel S510 to add to my B&W 803D3 while they are on sale for Christmas. But I’m wondering, are there better subs available for my situation? The biggest limitation is width and depth size. The S510s (16Wx16Hx18.25D) are the largest I have room for so nothing larger. I’d prefer a sub with a 10” woofer (I’m thinking 8” too small for mains) and pricing under $3k each. My considerations so far are Rel and B&W. Any suggestions?
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2-Channel
McIntosh C2700, (2X)MC601, MEN220
Sonore opticalRendu, SGC sonicTransporter i5 (Gen 3), Roon Thorens TT TD318
B&W 803D3 JL Audio (2x)f110v2
Shunyata Denali, Alpha PCs, WW Gold/Silver Eclipse Interconnects

Whole House Music Listening
Bluesound Vault2i, PowerNode2, PulseMini2i, Pulse2, (3x)Flex
5.2 System Above using Passthru
Marantz SR7012
Oppo 205, Apple TV (4th gen), Sony XBR850e65
B&W HTM2 D3
Second 5.1 System Castoffs from Upgrades
LRC Paradigm Millenia 20, Velodyne MiniVee 10, KEF surrounds, DefTech AW6500

Last edited by dkorbal; 12-18-2021 at 07:18 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2021, 09:47 PM
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I don’t think anybody does small subs better than REL, the S series are great subs.
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Main system: Linn Klimax KDSM/2 w/Organik; D’Agostino Momentum S250 & HD pre; Rega P10 w/Koetsu Rosewood Platinum Signature; Boulder 1108; Sonus faber Il Cremonese; Shunyata Everest, Alpha v2 & Sigma PC, Alpha v2 IC & SC; UpTone EtherRegen; Quadraspire Sunoko-Vent T, ISOAcoustics Orea & HRS Damping

2nd system: Luxman SQ-N100, Sonus faber Minima Amator II, REL T-5, refurbished AR XA w/Nagaoka MP-200 & VPI cabling, Naim NDX 2, Shunyata PS8 w/Defender & Viper, Nordost Blue Heaven PC & IC, Shunyata Venom sc, Symposium Svelte Shelves

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Video: Sony XBR65X850C; Apple TV-4; Vienna Schönberg L/R, Webern center & surrounds; REL T1, T2, & T3; Arcam AVR850; Cambridge Audio 752BD; MIT-EXP SC
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2021, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkorbal View Post
I’m considering purchasing two Rel S510 to add to my B&W 803D3 while they are on sale for Christmas. But I’m wondering, are there better subs available for my situation? The biggest limitation is width and depth size. The S510s (16Wx16Hx18.25D) are the largest I have room for so nothing larger. I’d prefer a sub with a 10” woofer (I’m thinking 8” too small for mains) and pricing under $3k each. My considerations so far are Rel and B&W. Any suggestions?
Oh, yeah, there is a great alternative now...the KEF KC62. It's getting RAVE reviews everywhere. And, really small.

A friend in another forum has had about half a dozen subs from different mfrs (e.g. Rel, KEF Cube, KEF R400, Elac, 2x Rythmik, etc.) and he says the KEF KC62 is better than any of them.

And..it's small. Less than a foot square, something like 10" And...$1499/each.

Check out Darko's review here: https://youtu.be/Y2Lc8oOinOY

The thing is...these are excellent subs, and...they are small. Sounds perfect for your requirements.
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First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 MkIII-Si-X Paramount Special Edition preamp, Conrad-Johnson LP70S amp, On-loan: Constellation Inspiration integrated amp, Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion w/ EAR324, Oppo BD-83SE, Sonore OpticalModule with Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 power supply, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN, SOtM UltraNeo with Keces P3 power supply, Shunyata Omega & Sigma Ethernet, Alpha USB digital cables, Lampizator Baltic 3 DAC, Mac Mini/Roon, Harbeth 30.2 or Dynaudio Contour S3.4 w/ Esotar 2 tweeters, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Shunyata Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Alpha NRv2, Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, and Venom V14D power cords, Shunyata Everest 8000

Last edited by Puma Cat; 12-18-2021 at 11:02 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2021, 11:08 PM
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Thanks Stephen I did see Darko’s review. In fact he just gave it one of his “Products of 2021” award. I may have to take a more serious look at it.
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2-Channel
McIntosh C2700, (2X)MC601, MEN220
Sonore opticalRendu, SGC sonicTransporter i5 (Gen 3), Roon Thorens TT TD318
B&W 803D3 JL Audio (2x)f110v2
Shunyata Denali, Alpha PCs, WW Gold/Silver Eclipse Interconnects

Whole House Music Listening
Bluesound Vault2i, PowerNode2, PulseMini2i, Pulse2, (3x)Flex
5.2 System Above using Passthru
Marantz SR7012
Oppo 205, Apple TV (4th gen), Sony XBR850e65
B&W HTM2 D3
Second 5.1 System Castoffs from Upgrades
LRC Paradigm Millenia 20, Velodyne MiniVee 10, KEF surrounds, DefTech AW6500
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2021, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkorbal View Post
Thanks Stephen I did see Darko’s review. In fact he just gave it one of his “Products of 2021” award. I may have to take a more serious look at it.
I would, if I were you. If I had a spare $1500 bucks to spend on some gear, I would be giving it some serious consideration. And...I have a REL R-305 here that is very nicely integrated.

But, as I'm now a retired guy, my "discretionary spend" for audio gear lately has been going to improving the acoustics of my listening space even further (based on John's excellent V/Coustics vid recently, as well). Just ordered some additional GIK panels and 4 ceiling diffractors.
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First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 MkIII-Si-X Paramount Special Edition preamp, Conrad-Johnson LP70S amp, On-loan: Constellation Inspiration integrated amp, Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion w/ EAR324, Oppo BD-83SE, Sonore OpticalModule with Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 power supply, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN, SOtM UltraNeo with Keces P3 power supply, Shunyata Omega & Sigma Ethernet, Alpha USB digital cables, Lampizator Baltic 3 DAC, Mac Mini/Roon, Harbeth 30.2 or Dynaudio Contour S3.4 w/ Esotar 2 tweeters, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Shunyata Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Alpha NRv2, Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, and Venom V14D power cords, Shunyata Everest 8000
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2021, 11:15 PM
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Another manufacturer I see mentioned a lot is JLAudio. How does say a f110 compare to the Rel? How they integrate with my main speakers is first and foremost after size of course.
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2-Channel
McIntosh C2700, (2X)MC601, MEN220
Sonore opticalRendu, SGC sonicTransporter i5 (Gen 3), Roon Thorens TT TD318
B&W 803D3 JL Audio (2x)f110v2
Shunyata Denali, Alpha PCs, WW Gold/Silver Eclipse Interconnects

Whole House Music Listening
Bluesound Vault2i, PowerNode2, PulseMini2i, Pulse2, (3x)Flex
5.2 System Above using Passthru
Marantz SR7012
Oppo 205, Apple TV (4th gen), Sony XBR850e65
B&W HTM2 D3
Second 5.1 System Castoffs from Upgrades
LRC Paradigm Millenia 20, Velodyne MiniVee 10, KEF surrounds, DefTech AW6500
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2021, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkorbal View Post
Another manufacturer I see mentioned a lot is JLAudio. How does say a f110 compare to the Rel? How they integrate with my main speakers is first and foremost after size of course.
Yeah, can't comment on anything I have not heard. I trust Darko's reviews.

When I integrated my REL, I did a DOE (Design of Experiments). I like having a....transfer function and being able to characterize control factor interactions with statistical rigor.

The interactions are shown in the Interaction Profiles at bottom left.



Response surface at a 155 Hz node, showing the interaction between Gain and Crossover...


The Power of DOE compels you...
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First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 MkIII-Si-X Paramount Special Edition preamp, Conrad-Johnson LP70S amp, On-loan: Constellation Inspiration integrated amp, Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion w/ EAR324, Oppo BD-83SE, Sonore OpticalModule with Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 power supply, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN, SOtM UltraNeo with Keces P3 power supply, Shunyata Omega & Sigma Ethernet, Alpha USB digital cables, Lampizator Baltic 3 DAC, Mac Mini/Roon, Harbeth 30.2 or Dynaudio Contour S3.4 w/ Esotar 2 tweeters, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Shunyata Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Alpha NRv2, Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, and Venom V14D power cords, Shunyata Everest 8000
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2021, 12:37 AM
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dkorbal dkorbal is offline
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I’m not going to pretend I understand all of that but I am an engineer so I will figure it out. Just not tonight.
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Doug

2-Channel
McIntosh C2700, (2X)MC601, MEN220
Sonore opticalRendu, SGC sonicTransporter i5 (Gen 3), Roon Thorens TT TD318
B&W 803D3 JL Audio (2x)f110v2
Shunyata Denali, Alpha PCs, WW Gold/Silver Eclipse Interconnects

Whole House Music Listening
Bluesound Vault2i, PowerNode2, PulseMini2i, Pulse2, (3x)Flex
5.2 System Above using Passthru
Marantz SR7012
Oppo 205, Apple TV (4th gen), Sony XBR850e65
B&W HTM2 D3
Second 5.1 System Castoffs from Upgrades
LRC Paradigm Millenia 20, Velodyne MiniVee 10, KEF surrounds, DefTech AW6500
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2021, 01:14 AM
JMD JMD is offline
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Look at the Rythmik F12SE at $1189 and you get a 10% discount for multiples. It's 15 3/4 x 15 3/4 x 17. I also know the "friend" Puma is talking about for a few years and I personally take those pronouncements with a grain of salt. I own two pair of F-12's and have previously owned subs from HSU, SVS, Vandersteen, ACI and RSL. The Rythmik's are the best I've used.
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Last edited by JMD; 12-19-2021 at 01:18 AM.
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2021, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkorbal View Post
I’m not going to pretend I understand all of that but I am an engineer so I will figure it out. Just not tonight.


If you'd like to know more, Doug, ping me some time and I can talk you through it.



Meantime, here's an intro to DOE by JMP (these guys rock, I used to teach DOE with JMP...)

https://www.jmp.com/en_us/events/get...intro-kit.html
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First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 MkIII-Si-X Paramount Special Edition preamp, Conrad-Johnson LP70S amp, On-loan: Constellation Inspiration integrated amp, Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion w/ EAR324, Oppo BD-83SE, Sonore OpticalModule with Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 power supply, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN, SOtM UltraNeo with Keces P3 power supply, Shunyata Omega & Sigma Ethernet, Alpha USB digital cables, Lampizator Baltic 3 DAC, Mac Mini/Roon, Harbeth 30.2 or Dynaudio Contour S3.4 w/ Esotar 2 tweeters, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Shunyata Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Alpha NRv2, Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, and Venom V14D power cords, Shunyata Everest 8000
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