Amp matching in Bi-amping - ideas check

[substance]

This is not an actual setup but proposed one. I would like to hear your opinions.

Speakers:
Martin Logan CLX - for the unaware, it has a very large electrostatic panel for the highs and another equally large (but optimized for bass) electrostatic panel for lows. They are crossover-ed at 360Hz and the bass panels goes down to 56Hz @-3db.

Proposed modification:

Remove the internal (passive) crossovers for active bi-amping.

Active crossover:

Pass Labs XVR-1 - for the unaware, its a highly flexible, all analog/balanced, class A active crossover. In 3 boxes configuration, it allows 3 way.

Subwoofers:

a pair of JL Audio Gotham crossover-ed @ 63Hz using the 3 box configured XVR-1

Amplification:

A pair of Mc2301 for the Highs - 360Hz and up

The question actually begins here:

A good matching amp to drive the bass panel? Preferably from Mcintosh. This amp will drive 360Hz to 63Hz panel(this can be narrower)

A pair of Mc301 seems like the logical choice with matched power, quad balanced design but I really dislike the way they look(the knobs).

Some other options:

Mc302/Mc303 - matched power, not quad balanced(do I need very low distortion on mid-lows?) 1 box solution to drive two panels(this can also be negative), Mc303 can drive the center, it is the exact same height as Mc2301 (also similar-sized watt meters). When placed in between a pair of Mc2301, the Mc303 has the best aesthetics.

Mc452 - Xvr-1 has gain/attenuation knob for matching gains so extra power isn't a big issue, extra headroom on mid-bass can be a plus. quad balanced, single box

a pair of Mc601 - same as above but totally separate right and left. Much higher headroom (overkill?)

one last option: Dont bother with bi-amping, just drive them with a pair of Mc601 or Mc2301

thanks for any input

[GaryProtein]

Use the same power amplifiers for at least the midrange and tweeters.

I use the XVR1 three way.

With the XVR1 if you need a four way or more, just add more XVR1 power supply and control modules. A power supply will run two control modules. You should use bandpass for the midrange in a three-way set-up and low pass for woofers and high pass for tweeters. If doing four way, the middle two frequency bands should be bandpass.

Seriously, you may be best off with a pair of MC601's or MC1.2KW amps and be done with it.

As far as distortion is concerned, the levels in ALL modern day quality amplifiers is INAUDIBLE, which is NOT to say the amps will all sound the same. Factors other than distortion affect the amplifier's sound.

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I would use one MC452. Absolutely wrong speaker to bi-amp. If you want too bi-amp ,then use another pair of speakers where you actually can Bi-amp.

[piolaxo]

But if the OP is looking for tube sound, would it be better off with a pair of MC2301?

[substance]

Originally Posted by Mctwins

Hallo!

I would use one MC452. Absolutely wrong speaker to bi-amp. If you want too bi-amp ,then use another pair of speakers where you actually can Bi-amp.

Can you explain why?

[GaryProtein]

Do you already own a CLX?

Why do you want to bi-amp it?

Are there particular slope characteristics you want to achieve or change with the XVR1 crossover?

Do you want to change the characteristics of the CLX?

Why not use a JL active crossover for the subs and a pair of MC601's or MC1.2KW for more power to drive the CLX's?

Are you sure you aren't artificially complicating the system?

Is the surgery on the CLX reasonably easy to perform, remove the existing crossover and re-wire?

[substance]

Do you already own a CLX?

Yes, I do.

Why do you want to bi-amp it?

Tubes for 300Hz and up and more dynamic ss for 300-60Hz band makes a good proposal.


Are there particular slope characteristics you want to achieve or change with the XVR1 crossover?

Also already own the xvr1 as well. It's 4 poles allow me to use it as a semi room eq (but in analog domain). Aim is to blend 2 panels and the subwoofer for a flat response while taking the room characteristics in account.

Do you want to change the characteristics of the CLX?

The passive xovers are good but active is always better. Better utilization of the amplifiers and multipole xvr1 can compensate for room characteristics.

Why not use a JL active crossover for the subs and a pair of MC601's or MC1.2KW for more power to drive the CLX's?

This is my concern. For the same money, I can get 3db more at 600watts but the tube sound maxes out at 300 watts. I would only go ahead with this project, if I get into mc2301 for the tube sound. Oh tubes sound amazing on electrostatic panels.

Note: xvr1 is a vastly superior design than cr1. I can't even tell if cr1 operates in balanced (having xlr i/o doesn't always mean so). I know for a fact their sub amps aren't balanced, xlr connection is converted to single ended internally before the class d amp(not a big deal on the very low end bass)

Are you sure you aren't artificially complicating the system?

The opposite actually, passive xover in the speakers likely alter sound more than active xovers.

Is the surgery on the CLX reasonably easy to perform, remove the existing crossover and re-wire?

I have an electrical and computer engineering degree with plenty of experience. The surgery should be no problem.

I don't have any experience with tubes. In electrical terms, they shouldn't sound better (on paper) but I hear they do. For that, my engineering knowledge siezes its importance and opinions from experienced foks matters more. Thanks for input by the way.

[GaryProtein]

What are you presently using the XVR1 for if not in this set-up?

I like my XVR1, but if you want room correction, the extra poles and use of shelving in a crossover still will not perform room correction. Furthermore, who is to say your room needs correction around the crossover points?

I doubt you will use the third and fourth poles for 18 and 24dB/octave. You'll most likely use the first and second poles for 6 or 12 dB slopes. The speakers may not even sound good with 18 or 24dB/octave slopes.

[chessman]

substance, I cannot evaluate the merits of your project, but I am fascinated by your daring. That said you have the education to pull it off. Good luck!

[substance]

Originally Posted by GaryProtein

What are you presently using the XVR1 for if not in this set-up?

I like my XVR1, but if you want room correction, the extra poles and use of shelving in a crossover still will not perform room correction.

Currently its in 2-way, just the sub and towers. I don't know if you are familiar with the continues time signal processing in ece but 4 poles are sufficient to flatten out the response of these line source speakers in a relatively flat room. I prefer to deal in room correction with acoustic treatment for mid to highs and analog equalizer for the very lows.(low frequencies are too strong to compensate with 2-3" thick absorbers). Within 300-60 (bandpass), you can flatten that region with 4 poles. Sure digital room correction in discrete time with many poles would make it ruler flat but I prefer to stay in continues time.