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  #21  
Old 10-05-2015, 11:53 AM
Patrick Butler Patrick Butler is offline
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13 years worth!




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Originally Posted by KMC45 View Post
Patrick,

Did you use to work for Sumiko?
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  #22  
Old 10-08-2015, 04:11 AM
RebelMan RebelMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Spinpsycho View Post
There's is a sound difference when you use a High current/ high wattage amps vs low current/ low wattage amps when your playing your music at low volume.
Power and current are not directly proportional. You can have a high powered amp that has low current output. The B&W's are current hungry not power hungry. Like Patrick, I have driven the flagship 800D to great success (unclipped) on only 60 watts of power!
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  #23  
Old 10-08-2015, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by RebelMan View Post
Power and current are not directly proportional. You can have a high powered amp that has low current output. The B&W's are current hungry not power hungry. Like Patrick, I have driven the flagship 800D to great success (unclipped) on only 60 watts of power!
...

I noticed when I demo's the B&W 802's V2 power by the two Mcintosh monoblocks 601's, the power output meter on the amps is bareley reaching 60 watts and was pretty damn loud in the room. I Also heard the 802's power by MC452, the 601's sounds more dynamic than the MC452 on the same volume setting on the Preamp control.
I'm waiting for my local Dealer to call me when the 803's arrives, the sales manager stated he is going to use a pair of McIntosh 601 to power them as store demo...I Can't wait...
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Last edited by Spinpsycho; 10-08-2015 at 08:30 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-08-2015, 04:35 PM
drabbish drabbish is offline
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How can someone know the current output of an amp? Is it posted from the manufacturer?
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  #25  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:55 PM
Venere Venere is offline
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Originally Posted by drabbish View Post
How can someone know the current output of an amp? Is it posted from the manufacturer?
Probably not, and you can't rely on their specs anyway, so find the amp with the biggest baddest toroidal power supply transformer and capacitors that you can afford. Thats likely the one with the highest current potential.
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  #26  
Old 10-09-2015, 12:59 AM
RebelMan RebelMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drabbish View Post
How can someone know the current output of an amp? Is it posted from the manufacturer?
If the specs don't list it then just ask the manufacturer. Sometimes you'll learn from reviews that evaluate amps in the lab too.
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  #27  
Old 10-09-2015, 02:21 AM
RebelMan RebelMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinpsycho View Post
I noticed when I demo's the B&W 802's V2 power by the two Mcintosh monoblocks 601's, the power output meter on the amps is bareley reaching 60 watts and was pretty damn loud in the room. I Also heard the 802's power by MC452, the 601's sounds more dynamic than the MC452 on the same volume setting on the Preamp control.
McIntosh amps with the autoformer designs have never been current (amperage) leaders in their respective segments. Neither have they been very linear. I've seen the 601 tested to deliver 41A which is about half of what other more traditional designs of similar class are capable of. Put the speakers on the 8 ohm tap and they do fine down to 4 ohm loads but beyond that the curve falls off very quickly. This is why, for best results, the 800 series should ALWAYS use the 4 ohm tap.

I am puzzled as to how the 601 was seen as more dynamic than the 452. Their output gains are the same and while the input sensitivities differ at their rated output they scale the same. Both amps are cut from the same cloth, the 601 just has more total output so characteristically they should sound similar if not identical at the same levels (volume). I have not personally compared the two side-by-side but I discovered a group that has and their conclusions align with mine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amp-Shootout
Shootout #27: Mcintosh MC 452/C50 versus Mcintosh MC 601/ Mcintosh C50
A friend bought one month ago the new mono power amps from Mcintosh, the MC 601. They look glorious with the big blue eyes, which covers almost the whole front face. Power output is 600 Watt per channel, but in a english review this power amp was tested with almost 2.000 Watt! The MC 452 was reviewed by a italian audio magazin with 1183 Watt into 4 Ohms. Mcintosh is big understatment in the prospect data.

After we hooked up everything (which is very difficult, because the MC 601 is almost so heavy like the MC 452, we started with our tests. When we didn´t do a blind test, we had the impression that the MC 601 has the same neutral sonic signature like the MC 452, only in the bass we had the impression, that the MC 601 had a little, little bit more punch than the MC 452.

But when we began with the bind test, we stopped after short time, because there was no difference at all. Also when we played with maximum volume (124 dB by ca. 900 Watts) which the loudspeaker can handle there was no difference at all. In the last shootouts we had the same issue with the Mcintosh MC 452 and the Accuphase A 60 that there was almost no sonic differences hearable. The Mcintosh MC 452 won these test with its pure power. This time the MC 601 couldn´t win this with its pure power, because the loudspeakers Linn 242 cannot handle more than 900 Watts. And the MC 452 can deliver this power. So its a tie, no sonic differences at all.

Winner: Both
I implore you to review their testing methodologies for completeness.

Last edited by RebelMan; 10-09-2015 at 02:25 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-09-2015, 11:13 AM
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^^^^Wow..... A $17,000 60 watts X 2 Accuphase A60 vs $8,500 450 watts X 2 McIntosh MC452 and there is no sonic differences hearable?
.....Unfortunately I couldn't perform a blind test...but it did seem the bass from MC601's had little more punch than the MC452.
Well it's good to know that my MC452 is just as powerful as the 601 from their blind test.....???? I guess I was proven wrong from their blind test??

Why is it Amp manufacture don't publish current rating on their Amp and only in Watts??
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Last edited by Spinpsycho; 10-09-2015 at 12:00 PM.
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  #29  
Old 10-09-2015, 12:21 PM
RebelMan RebelMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Spinpsycho View Post
...but it did seem the bass from MC601's had little more punch than the MC452.
It's good to know that my MC452 is just as powerful as the 601...
Well I guess I was proven wrong???
It's a placebo effect, the 452 is a very capable amp. Unless you love playing at wall shattering levels or the idea of owning mono-blocks, the 601's are nothing more than audiophile trophies.

Quote:
Why is it Amp manufacture don't publish current rating on their Amp and only in Watts??
Because it's expensive to make high current (Class A/AB) amplifiers. Class D amplifiers are making high current amplifiers more affordable, not to mention more compact and cooler, but there are tradeoffs with this approach. It's also harder to market (promote the sale) on the basis of amperes. It's more impressive to see a 600 watt amplifier listed than it would be a 41 ampere one. And since power is the product of voltage and current it's easier to normalise comparisons with other amplifiers.

Last edited by RebelMan; 10-09-2015 at 12:29 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-09-2015, 01:25 PM
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[QUOTE=RebelMan;732062]the 601's are nothing more than audiophile trophies.


RebelMan,
I guess one way is to perform a blind test from now on... I'm planning on a blind test on the Bel Canto CD2 that i recently acquired.... It was slightly used, traded my old B&W 683's for it... I'm using it as a CD transporter. Again i noticed there is no sound difference between the Bel Canto CD2 and the cheap LG blue ray player I pick up for $59 three years ago.. Both use soley as CD transporter..The Bel Canto CD2 retails brand new for almost $3,000 USD..
The only reason why I picked the Bel Canto CD2 is because it has the Philips CD Pro2M drive, supposedly its heavy duty. I listen to mostly CD's and I have a large CD collections.
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