#21
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AudioIdiot... Welcome to AA!
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Ivan FLORIDA MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES CAPE COD MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES |
#22
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#23
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George |
#24
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thanks, this looks like a really nice, informative and friendly forum
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#25
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thanks for the reply Gadawg.
I do believe you, but I am quite puzzled by the changes in design from the 32 to the 52. As a former audio engineer I designed many audio products, some really expensive ones. This all stopped in 2005, but my love for audio never disappeared and since 2 years I am fully addicted to great sound and the stuff that comes along with it. In 2004 I compared the No32 with my latest design, a two box pre-amp for an established high-end audio company (also listed in the manufacturers forum here at AA). I believe it retailed for around $20k. The cost was also substantial. We compared it to the No32 and although the differences were not day and night, the 32 just was a better amp. As my free-lance design work stopped due to more work with my day-time job I never got to the bottom of it, but the no 32 always kept in the back of my mind as "the" pre-amp. When the 52 came out I was less impressed with some of the design choices. As I am new here I am not yet allowed to post a new thread, but when that happens I will do so with a (technical) analysis of what I think the differences are. If the AA community agrees the 52 is better than this could become interesting reading and again proof that great sound can not always be explained by technical choices. Cheers. |
#26
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George |
#27
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Thanks George,
I am glad I wasn't the only one who questioned their choices. There is a full written analysis waiting to be posted, but I need to reach 10 posts .... !!!! Peter |
#28
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So I went back tonight and did some reading on the 32 Reference as its been a long time and my memory isn’t what it once was ... I was surprised to find that it made use of the instrumentation quality op amps like the 52. Actually the op amp boards look very similar to what was in the 326s. Both were a substantial upgrade over the 380. If you go back real far you can find units that used actual transistors mounted on heat sinks but that appears to have changed in the later Madrigal era. Harmon continued that up until now and I’m guessing will bring out new Ref product that follows their new design directions. I’ve owned a 380, 326 and now 52 Ref and the 52 is the best but the 32 is very very good and if you find one in great condition you’ll have an excellent unit at a bargain price. I did listen to a 32 but it’s been a while In fact ... the 52 seems to be more of a refinement of the 32 rather than re-invented. There are a ton of open box pictures on the web of both units and there are a ton of design similarities between them. One of the biggest differences was the material for the circuit board which I believe stopped being available at some point on the 32. I can only say I wish they had ‘refined’ the 33H rather than produce the 53’s! I’m betting the next Ref amp isn’t too many years away now that the 536s bests the 53s in many areas IMHO. George |
#29
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George,
I have a schematic of the 32 (most pages at least) and it is a very complex unit. Especially the multistage power supply. The actual schematic of the audio path is quite straightforward. and all happens on the lower board of the actual amp. I think "refinement" is quite a good word for what happened. I do believe that the 52 is substantial lower in cost to build. Peter |
#30
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Quote:
An alternative (because of budget) would be a 326s for me. They appear a bit more often on local eBay. What I can see is that indeed some design elements are copied from the No32. However the power supply doesn't come close. This doesn't mean that it is no good, but it does not have the isolation the 32 has. In my opinion a 52 and 32 will sound good no matter how poor the AC is, but a 326s needs a clean supply. And the rest of the equipment still does as well as I have not seen any other component (source or power amp) that uses this kind of isolation from the mains supply as the 32 and 52 have. In my situation with fully isolated balanced AC mains (pos and neg 115V AC) the 326s could perform quite well. The discrete designs from the Madrigal area you refer to is the 26 for instance. I borrowed that unit once and reverse engineered it to get the schematic. Not a design I would like to use, but for its days quite a daring design. unbalanced in the middle and a balanced to unbalanced input option with just a discrete inverter amp to get balanced out. But these amps are getting quite old now. |
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