RCM thoughts

[Antonmb]

Joel, I also had the 16.5, which served me well for many years. I now have an Audio Desk, which I love, but if I were shopping now, I’d look hard at the Degritter. It’s ultrasonic like the Audio Desk, but appears to have more control over cycle times, and has a removable tank, which is an advantage with these machines. Maybe Marc/2fastdriving will weigh in, he has a Degritter.

[joel_hifi]

Originally Posted by Antonmb

Joel, I also had the 16.5, which served me well for many years. I now have an Audio Desk, which I love, but if I were shopping now, I’d look hard at the Degritter. It’s ultrasonic like the Audio Desk, but appears to have more control over cycle times, and has a removable tank, which is an advantage with these machines. Maybe Marc/2fastdriving will weigh in, he has a Degritter.

Tony, thanks for the feedback and suggestion!

Ultrasonic seems the way to go and the Degritter looks like a very interesting option. Comments from existing owners would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by joel_hifi

I've had a VPI 16.5 for almost 20 years, it has cleaned countless number of records, an absolute work horse, never had an issue, only the usual swelling on the surface but I managed to live with that as it's hidden under the cover when not in use. It does get loud though, and it does get (very) warm after the 5th or 6th record wash in a row. I'm not familiar with the new range of RCMs at VPI so can't comment.

I have recently acquired an entire jazz collection of close to 1000 records which need to be bathed. And still have about 2000 records of classical music that also need a (deep) wash. So I'm looking for a new RCM that will make the whole process easy and that will be able to cope with the workload, hopefully in a rather silent way...

Open to suggestions and recommendations, thanks!

I echo this. Been using the 16.5 for about a dozen years now. It is truly a workhorse and gets the job done.

That said, there are a lot of RCM options out there now and most look quite capable. My only concern would be durability for the long haul. That's why I'm sticking with my VPI.

[80B]

Originally Posted by joel_hifi

Tony, thanks for the feedback and suggestion!

Ultrasonic seems the way to go and the Degritter looks like a very interesting option. Comments from existing owners would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Joel, I'm very happy with my new Degritter. I'm in the process of cleaning all my records with the new machine. That said, I haven't owned any other RCM, so can't provide a comparison, although it's obviously not the only quality option. For me, the price point was attractive, and I'm a big fan of anything Estonian (our piano is an Estonia and we toured the factory in Talinn). Played one LP before and after and although the record was newly purchased, there was an improvement with less 'snap-crackle-and-pop'. There are three cleaning cycles and you can adjust drying time (faster-noisier) and the user interface is excellent. One tip - turn on the machine and check via the menu for the firmware version, and compare that to what Degritter lists online vs. bothering downloading the firmware onto an SD card first. My machine was up-to-date out of the box.

The only downside, for some, is its noise - I've got mine in my office where it's convenient to use, but I'm definitely not going to play a Chopin nocturne while running the machine; the drying cycle is almost like running a vacuum cleaner.

After having cleaned all my records once, I'm not sure to what extent I will use it in the future. Certainly not after every play of a record, and I know some of the old jazz LPs that survived Mom and Dad's cocktail parties back in the day will need extra care, so it will be on an as-needed basis.

[Maks]

Now that KLAudio is out of the RCM biz, the Degritter is where I would look as well. I've thought about purchasing one as I like the idea of the removable water tank among other features, but there are other audio purchases ahead of that.

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by Maks

Now that KLAudio is out of the RCM biz, the Degritter is where I would look as well. I've thought about purchasing one as I like the idea of the removable water tank among other features, but there are other audio purchases ahead of that.

The surprise announcement that they were out of the RCM business shocked just about everyone that had an interest in record cleaning. As far as ultra-sonic it pretty much leaves AudioDesk as the lone product along with the newer startup Degritter.

For my own sensibilities, the idea of cleaning records in the same water as the prior cleaned record doesn't sit well. Notwithstanding excellent filtration capacity it's still used up water.

I've thought long and hard about this tech, but have decided to stand pat on my ancient VPI.

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by FreddieFerric

The surprise announcement that they were out of the RCM business shocked just about everyone that had an interest in record cleaning. As far as ultra-sonic it pretty much leaves AudioDesk as the lone product along with the newer startup Degritter.

For my own sensibilities, the idea of cleaning records in the same water as the prior cleaned record doesn't sit well. Notwithstanding excellent filtration capacity it's still used up water.

I've thought long and hard about this tech, but have decided to stand pat on my ancient VPI.

You forgot about ClearAudio’s Double Matrix Ultrasonic Cleaner.

[Maks]

There's also the Kirmuss US RCM. And I can understand not wanting to clean records in water that has cleaned others, but I haven't found this to be a problem. The only time I have concern about the water is when I clean 78s that have 60+ years of smoke and whatever in their grooves, I just change the water more frequently and since there's no expensive fluid, it doesn't really matter.

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

You forgot about ClearAudio’s Double Matrix Ultrasonic Cleaner.

I did not forget about it. I didn't know about it. Big difference.

Originally Posted by Maks

There's also the Kirmuss US RCM. And I can understand not wanting to clean records in water that has cleaned others, but I haven't found this to be a problem. The only time I have concern about the water is when I clean 78s that have 60+ years of smoke and whatever in their grooves, I just change the water more frequently and since there's no expensive fluid, it doesn't really matter.

Nothing better than speaking from personal experience. The Kirmuss system looks like a PITA to me. I observed that gentleman in his white lab coat demonstrate his cleaning system at RMAF. The process almost left me comatose.

[80B]

Freddie, if you ever do look at an ultrasonic, the water re-use issue probably isn't such a big deal. Of course, with each use, some gunk will get in the water, and there's more with each re-use. That said, the amount of gunk would be so low and diluted that the first X number of re-uses won't matter. That "X: on the Degritter has an upper limit of about 40 before the machine tells you to change and/or a week of use. (I've had to top up the water level since you lose a bit in each drying process). Of course, that number, "X:, is each user's decision as to what he's comfortable with, but without objective measurements it's a matter of what you hear over time, and I'd rather just re-clean than attempt something like figuring out how much gunk gets deposited with each use (although YouTube probably has someone who's tried that, LOL).

I took a picture of the first filter I used after something like 38 uses, and changed the water. At some point I may run a new filter and water on the same number of records that have been cleaned once, and see what the filter looks like by comparison. Digression alert: Of course, if I'm re-cleaning just the new vinyl I've bought in recent years vs. my dad's old stuff that was stacked on a spindle, handled during a number parties back in the 60s, and - he once told me just to yank my audiophile chain - thrown like frisbees at those parties, results may vary.. [end of digression]. That said, the purpose of the machine is getting my records cleaner and I know I'm achieving about as well as is possible with today's technology, so all is good.

I guess I'm into this topic at the moment, being in the midst of cleaning all my records for the first time, and have a bit of time during some of these cleanings!

One benefit of doing a cleaning of all the records at my desk (the cleaning machine fits on my printer stand behind my desk) is that I can enter each cleaning onto a spreadsheet, and create a database of all the records we own, something I've been meaning to do for years, but for which I never made the time. That will help prevent me from wondering if I already have something while I'm at the record store.