Higher End DACs

[ufguy73]

I asked about this in the Esoteric sub-forum but as there are other makes I am curious about (as well as just hearing from folks more broadly I thought I would enquire, here, as well)...


I am looking for a DAC (potentially streamer&DAC) to be paired in a mcintosh system (c1100/611). Its my first foray into digital streaming and I have no need for a CD player.

I see a lot of love for Esoteric, however, most seems to be around their transports? Are they not as renowned for pure digital streaming and/or standalone DACs? I see DCS (for instance) often referenced for standalone DACs - how does Esoteric compare?

[Masterlu]

At what price point? DAC’s especially high-end can get extremely expensive. I own DAC’s from $3500 to over $40K

[ufguy73]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

At what price point? DAC’s especially high-end can get extremely expensive. I own DAC’s from $3500 to over $40K

In general, it looks like there are 3-4 potential price points that I am looking at (+/- 5k, 10k, 20k, 20-30k). I am fairly comfortable up to the 20k point, assuming meaningful benefit over the lower price points. I suppose if there really was a marked difference in getting a true game changer at 25k or so that could be done, as well. I was just going to do a d1100 to fit with the rest of my system...but I am just hesitant about it. Not sure digital is the brands forte, the specs look decidedly less than other brands (even at significantly lower price points), not thrilled with some of the functional implementation (e.g. muting, popping, etc).

I should also add, the higher the price point the more interested I may become in getting a streamer/dac combination - again, unless the SQ benefits just dictate worrying about the streamer separately...in which case, i might be inclined to take a longer acquisition path (ie more expensive standalone DAC, interim streamer solution, upgrade streamer at later point, etc.).

I am not positive at what price points diminishing returns truly kick in, what point the context of my system would dictate not being worth going higher, and/or just given the rapid evolution of the segment it doesn’t make sense to outlay more.

Long response to a simple question - but these are some of the thoughts running through my head (ie system context, meaningful gains in SQ, at least a decent period of time to ward off obsolescence).

[2fastdriving]

What is the rest of your system? When figuring out a budget, you should aim to keep it in line with the rest of the rig. I wouldn't pair a 25k dac with a system that is running $5k speakers, personally. There's a general pecking order, with speakers usually at the top of the component expense breakdown (for most people).

That said, I've owned dacs/spinners from McIntosh, ARC, and Esoteric. Esoteric is in another league in my opinion. It's true they seem to be mostly known for their spinners, but remember that the spinner is not very useful if they don't also have class-leading dacs in them! I use the K-01x, which is technically a SACD player but I rarely use it as such, I stream via USB about 95% of the time. Sounds fantastic. So, you could get a combination player and still use with streaming, no problem.

Of course, you'd need a streaming source, but that can be done fairly inexpensively. I use an intel NUC that i've loaded the Roon OS on.

[ufguy73]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

What is the rest of your system? When figuring out a budget, you should aim to keep it in line with the rest of the rig. I wouldn't pair a 25k dac with a system that is running $5k speakers, personally. There's a general pecking order, with speakers usually at the top of the component expense breakdown (for most people).

That said, I've owned dacs/spinners from McIntosh, ARC, and Esoteric. Esoteric is in another league in my opinion. It's true they seem to be mostly known for their spinners, but remember that the spinner is not very useful if they don't also have class-leading dacs in them! I use the K-01x, which is technically a SACD player but I rarely use it as such, I stream via USB about 95% of the time. Sounds fantastic. So, you could get a combination player and still use with streaming, no problem.

Of course, you'd need a streaming source, but that can be done fairly inexpensively. I use an intel NUC that i've loaded the Roon OS on.

right now, C1100/611s/B&W800 d3...I don't know how those pieces would be considered in a digital setup...but something about sticking a 2k-5k Lumin/Mytek/PS/Auralic/Aurender - just didn't seem as 'sexy' to me as thinking about some of these other pieces...but maybe that is more silly of me than not!

yes, the logic that for a spinner to be excellent it must have an excellent DAC is why I am still attracted to the Esoteric brand even when looking for a DAC. I just wasn't sure if spinning really wasn't any sort of factor if there were other brands/platforms (being more purpose built and/or more of my spend dollars just going to the streamer/DAC functionality vs a spinner/DAC) that could do better with the questions solely oriented that way.

[W9TR]

The latest crop of under $2500 DAC’s is pretty amazing. That’s where the point of diminishing returns begins.

Search for this thread on this forum:

Esoteric K-01X versus Schiit Audio Yggdrasil


It’s a well-considered and unbiased comparison of a $2500 DAC and $20000 disc spinner by our own jdandy.

Happy hunting

Tom

[dixon007]

One thing to consider further down the line after the initial purchase of a DAC, is the possibility of adding a masterclock. You may wish to think about your choice of a DAC as having inputs for that option of being able to accept a clock in case it appeals to you later.

[ufguy73]

Originally Posted by dixon007

One thing to consider further down the line after the initial purchase of a DAC, is the possibility of adding a masterclock. You may wish to think about your choice of a DAC as having inputs for that option of being able to accept a clock in case it appeals to you later.

yes, thank you for this - I had never heard of a clock before I started doing more research on going digital but understand this can really have a beneficial impact (ie squeeze that last x% of a setup).

I think both esoteric and dcs (two DACs that I am looking at) both have this ability - it would definitely be something I see myself adding, after the initial purchase.

[ufguy73]

Originally Posted by W9TR

The latest crop of under $2500 DAC’s is pretty amazing. That’s where the point of diminishing returns begins.

Search for this thread on this forum:

Esoteric K-01X versus Schiit Audio Yggdrasil


It’s a well-considered and unbiased comparison of a $2500 DAC and $20000 disc spinner by our own jdandy.

Happy hunting

Tom

its reviews like that which really make me wonder about the higher price point benefits!!

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by ufguy73

right now, C1100/611s/B&W800 d3...I don't know how those pieces would be considered in a digital setup...but something about sticking a 2k-5k Lumin/Mytek/PS/Auralic/Aurender - just didn't seem as 'sexy' to me as thinking about some of these other pieces...but maybe that is more silly of me than not!

yes, the logic that for a spinner to be excellent it must have an excellent DAC is why I am still attracted to the Esoteric brand even when looking for a DAC. I just wasn't sure if spinning really wasn't any sort of factor if there were other brands/platforms (being more purpose built and/or more of my spend dollars just going to the streamer/DAC functionality vs a spinner/DAC) that could do better with the questions solely oriented that way.

I only mentioned because you were considering a very wide range for your budget, and I think you should keep it in line with the rest of the setup in the way I proposed. Sounds like you have quite a nice setup, so even if you go with a $25k dac, it's not going into a system that isn't going to support the overall resolution you are going to get. It drives me crazy when I see people saying that "dacs are all the same" and when I look at the gear in their system, it's some kind of cheap integrated with cheap speakers. Of course, you can build a very satisfying system like that, but it makes no sense to reach for SOTA sources if your system isn't in line with that. SOTA costs a lot! And yes, despite many "deniers", it sounds better.

I personally feel that although a Schitt dac might be "close" to an Esoteric (I have not compared them myself), I doubt they are simply interchangeable - the build quality, sound quality, and pride of ownership of boutique brands like Esoteric or dcs makes it a worthy goal if you have a high-end system. Add a good clock to either, and it's game over. My opinion only, don't flame me!