Down the Shunyata Rabbit Hole--Now What?

[ACHiPo]

I'm new to Audio Aficianado. I have a question about Shunyata power products.

I'm demoing a used Hydra Triton and Typhon QR on my front end components. While I've been impressed and swayed by Shunyata's videos and articles, I don't hear much, if any improvement, and if there is an improvement it is quite subtle. Not what I was expecting for a used component that cost as much as my new Holo Audio May DAC.

In for a penny, in for a pound, I ordered a Venom V12NR power cord. I first tried it on my phono stage with no change. I then swapped with my preamp, and things are sounding noticeably better (I had a Triode Wire Labs PC on the pre before the V12NR) and more engaging. Based on this positive result I ordered a couple more V14 digital cords to replace black cords on my turntable and DIY sub figuring I can move them around and listen for differences.

Just to educate myself (and because this is a hobby) I bought an Entec line noise monitor and an Ideal 61-164 line analyzer. The Shunyata Triton and Typhon reduces noise from 100 to ~80 on the Entec--quite a bit less than I expected based on the videos. The noise level dropped another ~10 when I plugged the V14NR into the Triton, so it's doing something systemically.

My audio gear is on a dedicated 20A circuit that goes first to amps/subs, then to a DIY sub mid-room, before terminating at the electronics closet in the back of the room. The Hydra is plugged in below the front end rack and all front end gear is plugged into the Triton. Testing noise at the amps about 20' away I don't see any change in noise with/without the Hydra (I expected the Hydra to lower the noise at least a little bit on the entire circuit?) I also hear AM on the Entec, even though I used twisted 10/3 Romex to wire the circuit (another surprising result--I'd expected the twisted Romex to be good at rejecting EFI).

The Ideal circuit analyzer tells me I have 600 - 700A of DTDC (what Ideal calls Available Short Circuit Current), so the Triode Wire Lab power cords perform in that regard, so I'm surmising I'm mostly looking for noise reduction?

So my question is what should I expect? At this point I'm thinking I will pass on the Hydra gear, but the fact that I do seem to hear an improvement with the Venom NR cord on my preamp makes me think it's doing something. Especially since the Triton and Typhon are a very tight fit under my rack and everytime I move them to access plugs it seems I unplug the umbilical or IEC plug in the Typhon.

My current plan is to pull the Hydra boxes out of the front end and listen for a few days with things back they way they were, then install them on my amps and subs and see what if any difference I hear. Does this make sense?

Is it possible my gear just isn't audibly sensitive to the noise reduction?

Assuming Shunyata is indeed the way to go and I do hear a difference when I remove/move the Hydras, what power cords do you recommend for each of the components below?

AtmaSphere M60 amps
2 Rythmik 12SE subwoofers
1 dual 10" DIY sealed sub
Parasound JC2 preamp
Aurender S10 music server
Holo Audio May KTE DAC
GeerFab D.BOB HDMI SACD decoder
Oppo 105 universal player
Modified DIY Lenco L75 turntable
Wavestream Kinetics tube phono stage


Thanks,
Evan

[kennyb123]

Originally Posted by ACHiPo

I'm demoing a used Hydra Triton and Typhon QR on my front end components. While I've been impressed and swayed by Shunyata's videos and articles, I don't hear much, if any improvement, and if there is an improvement it is quite subtle. Not what I was expecting for a used component that cost as much as my new Holo Audio May DAC.

Which power cord did you use to connect the Triton to the wall? That’s power cord is the most critical one when it comes to getting the most from any power distribution device. The other power cords matter too, of course, but the first cord can set the agenda for what follows.

Is it possible your gear just isn't audibly sensitive to the noise reduction? I’m sure your gear will benefit - but the chain is only as strong as the weakest links. So your power cords and signal cables can play a big part in that. I think the Venom NR power cords are excellent and offer a nice bang for the buck. The Delta v2s are a worthwhile step up if you can swing them.

What you will hear when the right pieces are in place is a reduction in noise floor, with noise removed that you didn’t even realize was there. In my case, adding a Denali v1 startled me because it made it evident that through most of my years as an audiophile I had been listening to music that was covered in a haze.

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by kennyb123

Which power cord did you use to connect the Triton to the wall? That’s power cord is the most critical one when it comes to getting the most from any power distribution device. The other power cords matter too, of course, but the first cord can set the agenda for what follows.

I pulled the Hydra out from under the rack and removed it from the system yesterday. It only took me about 30 min to decide that I want something equivalent or better on my front end components. The Hydra Triton V2 and Typhon QR (I finally got it clarified that the Typhon was a QR from the factory) definitely does something to make most music more gripping and emotional. It is not a sound change, per se, but rather psychoacoustics for lack of a better word. Clean power does something to change the impact of the notes--kinda like listening to live music and every so often a note or slap will hit a nerve and release dopamine or something pleasurable. My system would do this occasionally before the Shunyata was installed. With the Shunyata gear it happens more often. Another totally subjective anecdote is that I received many more positive passing comments from my wife while the Hydras were in place in my front end--things like "who is that bass player? He's fantastic".

The power cord from the wall to the Typhon is a Python. I know that's an older cord, and from the sound has ferrite beads inside the sheath that rattle around when it's moved. Any information on the relative performance of this cord would be appreciated.

The umbilical is a Stealth Typhon, which I think is just the stock umbilical.

After deciding I definitely like the Hydras in my system I moved them upstream to the amps. Like when I first installed them in the front end I noticed a very subtle improvement, but nothing earthshattering from a sound perspective. I'll give them a few days in their new location and see what I think. I'd hoped to see a reduction in noise as measured with the Entech Line Noise analyzer. I plugged the analyzer into the circuit with the Hydras removed and set the gain to 100. I installed the Hydras and powered everything up. I checked the Entech in the amp outlet and the noise dropped ~2 points. I plugged it into the Triton and it was the same. I then plugged it into the front end outlet and got about the same reading. It seems pretty bizarre not to see any measurable improvement. I did not pick up any AM, so that's a good thing I suppose. I also ordered some ferrite beads that I can clamp onto the 10awg Romex that might help reduce the noise floor more.

[tima]

Originally Posted by ACHiPo

...

The power cord from the wall to the Typhon is a Python. I know that's an older cord, and from the sound has ferrite beads inside the sheath that rattle around when it's moved. Any information on the relative performance of this cord would be appreciated.

... I'd hoped to see a reduction in noise as measured with the Entech Line Noise analyzer. I plugged the analyzer into the circuit with the Hydras removed and set the gain to 100. I installed the Hydras and powered everything up. I checked the Entech in the amp outlet and the noise dropped ~2 points. I plugged it into the Triton and it was the same. I then plugged it into the front end outlet and got about the same reading. It seems pretty bizarre not to see any measurable improvement. I did not pick up any AM, so that's a good thing I suppose. I also ordered some ferrite beads that I can clamp onto the 10awg Romex that might help reduce the noise floor more.

Fwiw, those are not ferrite beads slithering around in the Python. It a proprietary Shunyata compound that is, or is similar to their proprietary ZrCa2000 and tuned to absorb non-musical energy in the megahertz and into the gigahertz ranges. Irc, Shunyata believes it is clearly sonically superior to ferrite beads.

With regard to measurement testing ...

There is an interesting post from Grant Samuelson about using the IDEAL SureTest analyzer to measure Shunyata products on a different forum (Whiskey Bravo Foxtrot) - a direct reference to which here is VERBOTEN. There is also a lengthy thread named "Measuring power line noise with the TriField EM100, and the impressive effect of Shyunyata products" on the same forum wherein the Entech device is also discussed. I believe you know where this can be found if you've not seen it already.

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by tima

Fwiw, those are not ferrite beads slithering around in the Python. It a proprietary Shunyata compound that is, or is similar to their proprietary ZrCa2000 and tuned to absorb non-musical energy in the megahertz and into the gigahertz ranges. Irc, Shunyata believes it is clearly sonically superior to ferrite beads.

With regard to measurement testing ...

There is an interesting post from Grant Samuelson about using the IDEAL SureTest analyzer to measure Shunyata products on a different forum (Whiskey Bravo Foxtrot) - a direct reference to which here is VERBOTEN. There is also a lengthy thread named "Measuring power line noise with the TriField EM100, and the impressive effect of Shyunyata products" on the same forum wherein the Entech device is also discussed. I believe you know where this can be found if you've not seen it already.

Tim,
Thanks for the correction—I knew the beads are not ferrite, but had just clamped ferrite beads on Romex and guess I typed too fast without thinking. By the way the ferrite beads on Romex did not have any measurable effect on line noise.

In addition to the Entech line noise analyzer I also use the Ideal analyzer to measure instantaneous current capability.

I’m familiar with the other forum thread to which you refer. I bought the Entech rather than the TriField based on a statement by Caelin that the TriField is not sensitive to a noise band that is detrimental to audio while the Entech is.

[ACHiPo]

The power cord and umbilical are high-end Shunyata—Sigma I think. I’ll post specifics when I remove the Hydras to listen without them in a few day.

[ChrisMag]

My JC2 and JC5 definitely seem to benefit from the NR power cords. I use a Delta NR V2 on the preamp and Alpha NR V2 on the amp. Previously, I was running a Delta V1 and Alpha HC on the amp.

I have a Denali 6000 v2 arriving tomorrow. My PS Audio P10 is in Colorado for repairs and will eventually end up in my friend's system. It will be fun to compare the two.

[tima]

I could not quite get from your initial post what is your dissatisfaction - is it something you're hearing or something you're measuring? Or not hearing? Or expecting different measurements? Can you say more?

Replacing a power cord on your turntable or its power supply is not likely to yield much in the way of sonic benefit or noise reduction. I'd probably leave the M60s straight into the wall and use the Triton+Typhon for your phonostage, linestage and digital/music server.

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by tima

I could not quite get from your initial post what is your dissatisfaction - is it something you're hearing or something you're measuring? Or not hearing? Or expecting different measurements? Can you say more?

Replacing a power cord on your turntable or its power supply is not likely to yield much in the way of sonic benefit or noise reduction. I'd probably leave the M60s straight into the wall and use the Triton+Typhon for your phonostage, linestage and digital/music server.

I'm intrigued, and skeptical, about the cost benefit of power quality and conditioning. I'd like to find something that would improve the emotional engagement and tonal accuracy of my already pretty good system, and power may be a way to get there. Other power products I've purchased (Richard Grey Power Stations, TWL PCs) were purchased based on endorsements of others and "can't do any harm" philosophy. I've never heard a significant difference in my system with the products installed.

Caelin's use of relatively simple and affordable metrology to demonstrate the effectiveness of Shunyata's products combined with a hearty endorsement of my speaker dealer (and many audiophiles everywhere) convinced me there's something to it. The leap needed with Caelin's approach, of course, is that improvements in DTDC and Entec qualitative noise measurements result in audible improvements in audio gear. Seems plausible, but I still want to hear it with my ears in my system. The Venom V12NR in my Parasound preamp was audible improvement when plugged into the Hydra. The other components plugged into the Hydra with TWL cords didn't sound any different, nor did the Wavestream phono stage with the V12NR. The Hydra results were pretty surprising given the raves about the QR technology and the cost of the boxes.

Now I haven't totally concluded there is no audible difference. I plan to remove them from the system after they've been in for a couple weeks and see if things sound worse. They should. If not, then I'll try them on the amp end of the circuit, if still not, they don't stay.

All of this is a rather long, rambling pseudo answer. Perhaps a more concise one is that I'm curious what all the shoutin's about, and would like to improve the quality of sound in my system if possible.

[kennyb123]

Originally Posted by ACHiPo

I'm intrigued, and skeptical, about the cost benefit of power quality and conditioning. I'd like to find something that would improve the emotional engagement and tonal accuracy of my already pretty good system, and power may be a way to get there.

I would recommend that you try to put aside any preconceived expectations and maybe even invite over a friend to listen with you. The best way to evaluate Shunyata’s approach is to set aside what you hope to accomplish and just allow yourself to hear what’s actually accomplished.

The Triton (if v3) when used with the Typhon QR were previously amongst the best one can buy. The reviews have been about as good as they could possibly get. If you aren’t hearing any improvements then I have to think there is something wrong with either your gear or how you’ve chosen to evaluate these products. You should hear some differences with it being more of a case of whether you like what you hear. You have some really good components and I would expect you to be more impressed with how good they really once they are able to thrive thanks to being supplied with better power.

Shunyata’s products are the real deal and few other brands deliver the value for the dollar that they deliver. I can understand how some might have a preference for other brands though or how some might not appreciate the differences they hear. But not hearing any improvements? These would have to be counterfeits for that to happen.