Accuphase M-6200

[TommyC]

I will have my A-200 sitting in a rack that has 2" clearance on the top. It's open to all sides though.

[Accumac]

I also saw now a picture of Ivan's rack where's not a lot of space between the A 200s and the top,w hich reassures me that heat won't be an issue. Thanks for the help

[nvp]

If the A-200s put out as much heat as my A-65 does, and my guest is that one A-200 releases more heat that one A-65 as is significantly more powerful, than I would NOT recommend leaving only 2-2.5" space above the them. Most likely the amps will work, but they will not be properly ventilated, and that might affect their long term reliability. It really is beyond me why one would want to mistreat such expensive and beautiful equipment. Accumac/TommyC, read the A-200 manual and whatever figure is recommended there for the free space above the A-200 amps should be your absolute minimum.

My A-65 sits on the lowest level of a Finite Elemente Master rack and has more than 15 cm (i.e. more than 6 “) free space above it. The A-65 puts out so much heat that the platform above the A-65 together with the unit that sits on this platform (i.e. a DG-48 unit) are warm to the tough. Since I use my system 4 - 6 hours (sometimes more) daily, and I plan to use it for a long time, I would under no circumstances reduce the space above the A-65. Consequently, my suggestion to you guys is to do the same. If that is not possible buy the A/B mono blocks (Accumac) or get a new rack (TommyC/Accumac).

[TommyC]

Mr. Suzuki said with all sides open, it will be ok to have only 2" clearance. If the sides are closed, he recommended 6". He said the amps have thermal protection circuit so no worries about premature failure.

[Accumac]

Thanks for your thoughts, NVP and Tommy C. Without being enrolled in the forum I couldn't see the pics when browsing through the threads, but now, when you look at the pictures in the 'Accuphase Reference System' thread, page 38 ff, it seems to me that Ivan's A200s don't have 6'' clearance by far which would coincide with Tommy C's information that this is ok. I doubt Ivan would take any chances with his amps.
It is true there won't be an issue with the M-6200. I discussed also heat with a guy who has 2 A46 and he said that he can put his hands on the amps at any time 'hot, yes, but not very hot', Maybe the A65 gets hotter than other models, I don't know. Anyway, thanks very much, it's always good to know what to look for. If I should go for the A200 which I am currently leaning to I will closely monitor heat for sure.
Btw as this is a M-6200 thread, did anybody have the chance to audition them, make comparisons?

[nvp]

Accumac, the top class A power amps (e.g. A-60, A-65, A-70, A-200, etc.) get much hotter than the rest of the class A models (e.g. A-45, A-46, E-5xx, E-600, etc.) as they have a much higher class A biasing. (Similarly, the C-3800 gets much hotter than C-2810 and C-2820 which are mildly warm to the touch. In fact, my C-3800 pre, and most likely also the new C-3850, gets almost as hot as my A-65 amps. I really talk about a lot of heat here.)

Accuphase provides a manual and makes recommendation there for a reason. The fact that dealers and users choose to ignore those recommendation is not uncommon and in the end has little relevance.

Regarding Ivan reference system, one has to realise that we talk about a show room. (Did you see the table between the listening position and the speakers?). Plus, we do not know anything about the amount of air conditioning in that room (which can be a lot), e.g. I get a cold because of the air conditioning every time I go to USA.

Finally, if I am not mistaken, TommyC did not unbox yet his C-3850 & A-200 combo. He is merely telling us what he is planning to do. I am sure that if his units go into thermal shut down he will change his rack and so will you. These units are marvellous units that deserve that.

[nvp]

Originally Posted by TommyC

Mr. Suzuki said with all sides open, it will be ok to have only 2" clearance. If the sides are closed, he recommended 6". He said the amps have thermal protection circuit so no worries about premature failure.

Indeed, the thermal protection circuit is there to prevent the permanent failure of the amps. However, the presence of a fail-safe is not a reason to disregard the recommendation in the manual, i.e. the basic rules for having the unit function under normal conditions/parameters. IMO this is like disregarding traffic lights or speed limits because your car has airbags.

Tommy, I hope you understand that what I have written above is not meant as a personal attack to you. I truly believe that with equipment of this level, following the basic recommendation given in the manual is the least one can do. This does not require much effort, especially when compared to the time and money spent by most audiophiles for finding the "perfect" cables for their amps. People often feel that expensive equipments like the A-200s should operate properly under any conditions. Why else would they cost that much, right? The truth is that, in spite of the fact that they are built like tanks, the A-200s are precision instruments, and precision instruments should be used with utmost care if maximum performance and reliability is the goal.

[TommyC]

Originally Posted by nvp

Indeed, the thermal protection circuit is there to prevent the permanent failure of the amps. However, the presence of a fail-safe is not a reason to disregard the recommendation in the manual, i.e. the basic rules for having the unit function under normal conditions/parameters. IMO this is like disregarding traffic lights or speed limits because your car has airbags.

Tommy, I hope you understand that what I have written above is not meant as a personal attack to you. I truly believe that with equipment of this level, following the basic recommendation given in the manual is the least one can do. This does not require much effort, especially when compared to the time and money spent by most audiophiles for finding the "perfect" cables for their amps. People often feel that expensive equipments like the A-200s should operate properly under any conditions. Why else would they cost that much, right? The truth is that, in spite of the fact that they are built like tanks, the A-200s are precision instruments, and precision instruments should be used with utmost care if maximum performance and reliability is the goal.

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply. As my rack is modular and the pillars interchangeable, I can easily accommodate the added clearance. :thumbs: I will be living with the combo for a long time, so keeping them in optimal working condition is my priority.

[audiohippo]

Originally Posted by Accumac

Hello I am (not) new to this forum …… as a regular reader I have been enjoying the knowledge and the discussions in this forum already some time. Currently the upgrade bug is biting me. Having been Mac for a long time I would be ready to venture deeper into Accuphase territory after the DG48, but not sure if this would really make sense. Comes along the M-6200 which looks really great and which could be the amp I would like to have. In my quest I have also spotted 2 used A 200 (about 2 years old) for about half sticker price but no warranty. Price wise that would even be better than a M-6200 new. Specs look very similar. Among the questions I am asking myself are: Would a pair of M-6200 / A200 be a real improvement over the MC501 or possibly the MC601, leaving all other components in place for the time being, i.e. would a C500/P combine well with any of them (sure the C3800 would be better, but that’s something for the future)? Also, I am quite happy with integrated phono stage of the C500/P which makes it more difficult to part ways. What about heat issues for the A200 or Accuphase Class A in a rack (open to the rear and side)? Would you think that the M-6200/A 200 are a good match for the B&W 802 Diamond speakers? Both amps have sufficient power however but would one be a better match ? Unfortunately it would not be possible to hear any of them at home, therefore your ideas and thoughts would be most helpful. Thanks very much

I am in the same stage, very hard to demo the Accuphase in Australia, so hard to say if it's a real step up or not.

[shl5+fan]

I really like this forum. So many things to learn. You guys should try a Pass Labs. In the past I can have a complete breakfast without going to the kitchen. LOL....