New Shunyata Altaira Grounding System

[TommyC]

Question, if a component has no ground terminal, using chassis screw isn't feasible, and the unused connectors all measure >1ohm, does that mean the component isn't suitable for grounding?

[JohnThomas]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Okay, some clarification here. If you have your equipment plugged into an Everest power distributor (PD) with standard IEC-type 3-prong plugs, as Ivan as correctly pointed out, your components have a "safety" connection to "earth ground".

This safety ground connection, however, does not remove ground-plane noise from the components in the system. This what the GP-NR terminals on Shunyata power distributors do and to a significantly greater extent, what the Altaira Ground Hubs do.

So...if you have a chassis ground (sometimes referred to as "earth ground") terminal on your component, as many Asian components do, e.g. those from Aurender, Lumin, etc., you can connect a Shunyata chassis ground cable from that component's chassis ground terminal to one of the GP-NR terminals of your Everest, etc., and obtain a significant audible improvement in form of a lower noise floor, and less "hash and grain" from the Shunyata's GP-NR (ground-plane noise reduction) system.

A dedicated chassis ground terminal on a Lumin U2 Mini...why don't all American and European companies do this anymore?




Alternatively, by running the appropriate test using an ohm meter, you may also be able to use an external chassis fastener to make a connection to chassis ground if the component does not have a "dedicated" chassis ground terminal. The caveat here is that for safety reasons you must run a test with an ohm meter and obtain a reading of <1 ohm to be able to safely and properly use that chassis fastener as a chassis ground connection point to a GP-NR terminal on Shunyata PD. This is because some chassis have painted or powder-coated chassis, and that fastener may not make a connection to chassis ground ground because of the coating. This is why running the test with the ohm meter is 'mission-critical".

Here's a photo showing connecting an Alpha ground cable connected to the chassis ground terminal of my EtherREGEN. By connecting this ground cable from EtherREGEN to one of the GP-NR terminals on an Everest, Denali, Sigma, Alpha, Delta, and Venom PDs, etc., you'll hear a notable improvement. You can thank John Swenson of UpTone for being an excellent and disciplined engineer and putting a proper chassis ground terminal on EtherREGEN



See those black binding posts on the back of Everest? Those are the GP-NR ground posts. They're there for a reason. Use 'em!



What the Altaira Ground Hubs do when added to a system is extend and enhance the magnitude and quality of ground-plane noise reduction (GP-NR) functionality of an Everest, and other Shunyata PDs for even more of an audible improvement.

That was a very informative response, thank you very much. So what grounding cables are you guys using from your components to your Everest? Not the Altaira.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas

That was a very informative response, thank you very much. So what grounding cables are you guys using from your components to your Everest? Not the Altaira.

When I started exploring the GP-NR system of my Everest, I bought Venom and Delta. These cables have either fixed spades or banana plugs on them, as the Shunyata tail system was not available at that time.

Initially, I used Venom on a couple of components, e.g. the unused S/PDIF connector on my DAC, and the ground terminal on the EtherREGEN, and Delta for connecting the ground terminals of the two external power supplies for my First Sound preamp, and also the main "control unit" of the First Sound preamp as these cables were making longer runs than the Venom cables.

It's important to note that for ground cables, impedance is one of the key metrics, and so for longer runs of ground cables, the higher-spec cables will have lower impedance, and provide more improvement.

I just recently added an Alpha ground cable to examine the benefit it provides over Venom and Delta. On the whole, I don't hear much difference between the Venom and Delta ground cables, but the jump to Alpha is quite notable.

So...I'm now using Alpha for the key connections, e.g. EtherREGEN, preamp, and amp. At some point, I should replace the Venom on the Lampi DAC with an Alpha, as well.

I've been recommending this for some time, but folks really should use the GP-NR system of their Shunyata power distributors. It's there for a reason. Just as an example, simply connecting a Venom ground cable from my EtherREGEN to GP-NR ground post of Everset really made for a notable improvement in sound quality. Just that one device. Turns out that many "digital-domain only" components, e.g. network bridges, steamers, Ethernet switches, FMCs, etc, etc., are really susceptible to ground-plane noise (as well as leakage current), and really benefit considerably from connection to a proper ground-plane noise reduction system.

It's a given that these additional cables represent yet another cost for a system. If you want to explore the various devices in your system, I'd recommend renting in some cables; for example, starting out with Venom to see what works on what components, and what may not. Once you determine that, you can explore the benefits of a higher-spec cable for the key components that benefit from connection to the GP-NR system if that's compatible with your budget.

For folks that want to go "all-in" from the get-go, I'd recommend starting at Alpha.

Hope this helps.

[kennyb123]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

I just recently added an Alpha ground cable to examine the benefit it provides over Venom and Delta. On the whole, I don't hear much difference between the Venom and Delta ground cables, but the jump to Alpha is quite notable.

So...I'm now using Alpha for the key connections, e.g. EtherREGEN, preamp, and amp. At some point, I should replace the Venom on the Lampi DAC with an Alpha, as well.

As usual, you have provided some really helpful information. Thank you.

The Alpha is their least expensive ground cable with VTX-Ag conductors. Same gauge as the Delta though, which makes your impression more interesting.

Interesting also that you don’t hear much of a difference between Venom and Delta.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by kennyb123

As usual, you have provided some really helpful information. Thank you.

The Alpha is their least expensive ground cable with VTX-Ag conductors. Same gauge as the Delta though, which makes your impression more interesting.

Interesting also that you don’t hear much of a difference between Venom and Delta.

Hey Kenny,
I think the reason is I don't hear much difference is that for short lengths, e.g., 1M, the difference in impedance or engineering specification between Venom and Delta is not what I would classify as "practically significant*". This doesn't mean of course, there isn't a "statistically significant" difference, because there is, but in my experience, for ~1M lengths, there isn't much in it between them. One might notice the difference with longer runs, because the impedance will be higher, and as we know, there a statistically signficant "length*impedance" interaction (if you did a DOE, for example), but I don't know because I only compared them in my own set-up where I use 1 M lengths for components.

What I can say is that for "testing" which components would benefit, that Venom is fit-for-purpose for making those evaluations, and then folks can decide what cable specification will best meet their needs. Alpha is a clear jump above Venom/Delta, so if I were to upgrade from Venom as a base set-up, I'd jump to Alpha rather than Delta.

I'm just trying to be as pragmatic as possible here, but that won't come as a surprise to you guys.

•-Practically significant: What matters, most of the time, in the real world. This does not mean that sometimes, what is statistically significant does not matter, but most of the time (~80-85% of the time), all that matters is what is practically significant.

[Antonmb]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas

That was a very informative response, thank you very much. So what grounding cables are you guys using from your components to your Everest? Not the Altaira.

I'm in the process of installing Shunyata Alpha ground cables to my Everest.

[dkorbal]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

I'd recommend renting in some cables;

Is that a thing? Do dealers actually rent cables? I don't believe mine would but I've never really asked. Maybe I should. To coin a phase from my daughter "The worst that can happen is to be told no."

In this hobby experimenting can get expensive. I'm not sure about anybody else but I don't come across to many "try before you buy" offers. That is way I appreciate this forum and it's contributor such as Stephen. They help provide valuable information so I can make wise chooses.

To get back on point, I plan to reconfigure my system and install my newly acquired Denali, Alpha PCs and WW Gold interconnects in the coming weeks. Now I'm thinking maybe I should call Ivan about some Alpha grounding cables.

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by dkorbal

Is that a thing? Do dealers actually rent cables? I don't believe mine would but I've never really asked. Maybe I should. To coin a phase from my daughter "The worst that can happen is to be told no."

In this hobby experimenting can get expensive. I'm not sure about anybody else but I don't come across to many "try before you buy" offers. That is way I appreciate this forum and it's contributor such as Stephen. They help provide valuable information so I can make wise chooses.

To get back on point, I plan to reconfigure my system and install my newly acquired Denali, Alpha PCs and WW Gold interconnects in the coming weeks. Now I'm thinking maybe I should call Ivan about some Alpha grounding cables.

‘The Cable Company’ will ‘rent’ cables if they have designated them in their lending library. Not sure where you are located but probably only in the US.

[kennyb123]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Hey Kenny,
I think the reason is I don't hear much difference is that for short lengths, e.g., 1M, the difference in impedance or engineering specification between Venom and Delta is not what I would classify as "practically significant*". This doesn't mean of course, there isn't a "statistically significant" difference, because there is, but in my experience, for ~1M lengths, there isn't much in it between them. One might notice the difference with longer runs, because the impedance will be higher, and as we know, there a statistically signficant "length*impedance" interaction (if you did a DOE, for example), but I don't know because I only compared them in my own set-up where I use 1 M lengths for components.

Grant from Shunyata posted over on WBF. What he said about their cables is consistent with what you reported. I will paraphrase but what he basically said was that there are three levels: Venom, Alpha, Omega. The Venom is all copper while the Alpha adds silver which lowers the impedance. The Omega adds a CMode filter. The Delta is simply with the Venom but at 10 gauge instead of 12. The Sigma is simply an Alpha but at 8 gauge instead of 10.

I noticed that my REF10 clock also has a ground terminal so that plus my EtherRegen are two candidates for ground cables. I’m not planning to make a move just yet though.

One question I have in mind is when does it make more sense to apply dollars to a better conditioner vs the grounding system. Obviously we are talking apples and oranges, but I would have to believe that the better the power conditioning the greater the benefits from the grounding solution.

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas

That was a very informative response, thank you very much. So what grounding cables are you guys using from your components to your Everest? Not the Altaira.

I have a Triton V3 and Typhon QR...for chassis ground cables I use Shunyata Delta for short runs and Alpha for over 2m length since getting the Tv3 in late 2018. A very effective combination here...