dCS Vivaldi with or without preamp?
 

Interested in feedback on this topic. Contemplating a Vivaldi stack in 2015, and have my eye on a good preamp too. I still want to use my analog sources....is the Vivaldi's sound harmed by the addition of a preamp- even a world class one?


Considering D'Agostino or Ayre KXR Twenty preamp.

Hi Jax, I had the chance to audition the Vivaldi stack some two years ago plugged direct into D'ag stereo amp and honestly that configuration did not totally convinced me to pull the trigger right then and there---Let's just say, not moved. Came back to that Dealer six months later when they had the partnering D'ag pre in, everything went much better! Unlike during first encounter, I was no longer in scrutinizing mode for any of those infamous audiophile stuffs, but simply sat down and savored the presentations which to me (and a friend--who ended up buying the dCS stack) were overall more musically involving, convincing and believable. So yes, imo, even with SOTA digital rig, a top-notch preamp can/do make a difference, for the better in most cases.

Definitively with a pre-amp! Until recently i had the vivaldi stack and it played much better through a pre-amp. If you can afford both the dcs stack and a preamp, dont hesitate. Personally i never like a dac directly into the amps. Always sound more natural with a preamp.

I have the Vivaldi stack. Playing directly to amps will give you slightly better resolution. It can be a bit abrasive and dry at times. I use ARC reference 10 and prefer the sound with preamp over direct connection. I enjoy the music more with Ref 10.

Playing it direct makes me harder to fall into the music and forget the equipment. A tube based preamp should be a better match to Vivaldi.

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm guess I'll keep with my original plan for the analog preamp & add the Vivaldi later. I can't justify the transport, as I have few SACD's and use a Mac laptop as my main source (backed by a QNAP NAS).

I simply like the flexibility of the analog preamp; I have analog sources like reel to reel tape and LP and am not really interested in moving to a 100% digital setup.

Did snapped a pic during that first audition :
Attachment 37377

On second, too busy helping friend negotiate price. :blah:

I'll have to agree with everyone above. A great preamp is welcome.

Speakers: Rockport Altair 2
Preamp: Robert Koda K10 Amp: Ayre MX-R
Cables: Transparent Opus MM2 Spkr, Opus Gen 5 Interconnect
Power Shunyata Triton/Typhon, Anaconda Zitron cords (x9)
Digital dCS Vivaldi DAC, Transport & Clock w/ Transparent Reference XL Digital cables
Phono: Grand Prix Monaco TT, Schroder LT arm, Jan Allaerts MC2 Finish & Lyra Atlas, Nagra VPS/VFS
Racks: Grand Prix Audio Silverstone F1 (x2)

Here is another opinion. I'm running the Vivaldi DAC/UpS/Clock without a pre-amp and love it. I only use a single input to the Vivaldi hardware - my Mac Mini. I don't play head banger music that might benefit from a pre-amp. Mostly classical and acoustic jazz. The lower output of the DAC (2VDC) is adequate for all I listen to. The sound is sublime. Would it be better with a pre-amp? I am not motivated to find out since the set up I have meets all me emotional needs.

Cincy

:thumbsup:

Sounds like you have good impedance matching between your DAC and your amps even when DAC signal is attenuated. In my view, that's the main advantage of a preamp (electrically speaking).

You know that is a good point you're making. Cincy is using Transparent cabling, it could be a reason he is getting excellent results going direct...


Speakers: Rockport Altair 2
Preamp: Robert Koda K10 Amp: Ayre MX-R
Cables: Transparent Opus MM2 Spkr, Opus Gen 5 Interconnect
Power Shunyata Triton/Typhon, Anaconda Zitron cords (x9)
Digital dCS Vivaldi DAC, Transport & Clock w/ Transparent Reference XL Digital cables
Phono: Grand Prix Monaco TT, Schroder LT arm, Jan Allaerts MC2 Finish & Lyra Atlas, Nagra VPS/VFS
Racks: Grand Prix Audio Silverstone F1 (x2)

I had originally thought that going directly from the Vivaldi DAC to the amps would sound just as good or maybe better than having a preamp in the chain, but after some comparisons (to my ears at least) preamp did improve the sound. I use Transparent Ref MM (MM2) cables for interconnects and speakers.

I have tried to drive my Accuphase A200 direct by Vivaldi and through C3800. With the pre-amp, the sound is much richer and airy. Probably because of the synergy of the same brand pre and power amps.

I've been away for a while due to work requirements. Now that I have the time to return, I feel compelled to revisit my opinion above. I replaced my dCS Vivaldi DAC, upsampler and clock with an MSB Select II DAC. I'm running it direct to my mono blocks. During my in house demo, I had the opportunity to compare the Vivaldi DAC output to the MSB direct output. The Vivaldi output was thin in comparison to what the MSB DAC could produce. Fuller, richer, better dynamics. To my ears, the MSB produced what a reference pre amp would have added to the equation. Certainly this DAC is on a level above any of the dCS gear I've owned during the past 15 years. I never thought I would switch. My MSB DAC arrives on Tuesday.

Cincy

I have also heard the newest MSB DAC and love it. I didn't like the last gen one though. I'm not a DCS fan either as it's still a bit dry for my tastes, but this is why we have so many options. I run an integrated, but am thinking about Vandersteen mono's. I'm about to take possession of The Memory Player with a new internal DAC built in. They want me to try it without a pre as they have a different way to implement the direct output so you don't lose any data when lowering the sound level.

I have never heard any DAC that didn't benefit from a pre amp. I'm not even sure if the MSB was being run direct, but I think he was going through the MSB pre as he was ready for show at his store. I'll have to ask him. It's a great debate, but there are so many variables, that there isn't one right answer for every system.

I agree:music:

/byZan

For many years I been using my Vivaldi via Goldmund 32.5. Recently I tested is using same setup but on bypass mode (analog 13 input, for those familiar with Goldmund 32.5) and I found I like it better. IMO it has better resolution