McIntosh’s Use of Opamps
 

I was reading over my Baltic 3 manual this morning and can across this …..

“ LampizatOr DAC should not be used with opamp based preamp, no matter how good. Because the op-amp feedback loops will remove the whole joy of music as delivered by the tubed DAC.”

I am NOT an expert when it comes to EE knowledge. I’m am ME :D so this statement has me asking a lot of questions. Question such as:

1) I understand what opamps ARE but what is Lampizator referring to by the statement “opamp based preamp”?
2) More importantly is my Mac equipment considered “opamp based”? If so, is it removing “the whole joy of music”?
3) The path the signal travels is Baltic3 > C2700 > MEN220 > MC601 > 803D3. Is the MEN220 defeating the purpose?

My ears tell me adding the Baltic 3 increased my enjoyment of listening so my questions are not for confirmation but more of gathering information for possible tweaks down the road. Any help on the subject would be appreciated.

From multiple personal experiences; your question about the MEN220. I have consistently found that the MEN220 does in fact introduce more issues, than it solves.

So did the late Dan aka jdandy.

There are high end room correction devices available; they perform this function completely in the digital domain, however they are quite expensive at $25K. I own, and use two of them. YMMV

McIntosh’s Use of Opamps
 

Well, yes. IMO.

The MEN220 converts the analog signal to digital then back to analog after running room correction. Ultimately, the sound will only be as good as the DAC in the 220 is capable of since you are hearing the sound of that dac at the end of the day.

The Baltic is improving the signal sent to your 2700 and in turn to your 220 but you would be losing a large part of whatever Lampizator sonic signature would be, for sure.

Lampizator would never dream their dac output would be re-converted to digital and start from scratch down the line.

Same reason I would never use a 220 if I fed a turntable into the preamp, unless my room acoustics were so bad.

Try running the 220 in a tape loop if 2700 offers that, then you could switch the 220 in and out of signal path as desired. I think the 2300 offered that feature, no sure about the 2700.

Hard to comment on the 'op-amp' statement, but I agree with the above posts - re-digitizing a tube-based analog signal appears counter-productive.

I have not heard Ivan's systems employing equalization. I know that SCAudiophile (Mark)'s Legacy Valor system will sound fantastic. I would say that his Legacy system would be competitive with Ivan's and that neither would sound harsh, brittle, or veiled in the least. However, the majority of systems that employ digital eq do not fall into this category.

If you are playing vinyl I cannot understand employing digital eq. But vinyl makes no sense to me because all vinyl begins with a digital master. I think Lampizator would frown on digital equalization, preferring minimal to zero digital signal manipulation and a very simple pure discrete signal path. They are my kind of high end company.

I have been a Mac aficionado for 60 years. But you must understand Mac. I use a D1100 because it is a dual mono discrete design with two separate power supplies and the MCT500 is a fine transport, both improved significantly by Wilson Pedestals and top of the line power conditioning, power cords and IC's. I think I'm competitive, not better, than Ivan(using him as an example of someone who understands the high end) in this regard.

Then I employ simple huge mono amps, extremely expensive cabling, and likewise speakers. Keep the signal simple, protected, and pure always yields the best results. That's why I employ passive room correction only.

I think this is the message behind Lampizator's warning concerning op-amps.:yes:

Best

Charles

Categorical statements such as this are patently ill-informed and does not help your argument. See below. Just arrived.

You are very wrong. The great majority of vinyl is still analog. Thankfully.

There is a lot to unpack here.

#1
“ LampizatOr DAC should not be used with opamp based preamp, no matter how good. Because the op-amp feedback loops will remove the whole joy of music as delivered by the tubed DAC.”

It’s utter and complete bullshit of the highest order, repeating an old trope about poorly designed equipment. Lots of great sounding audio gear uses op-amps.

I could say the same thing about delta-sigma DAC’s like the Baltic 3. It’s a gross generalization.

2. Some Mcintosh equipment uses op-amps, some doesn’t. The designers choose the correct circuit for the job.

3. The MEN 220 is known to be flawed sonically. Many have tested it in and out of their systems and most say it impacts the sound in a negative way. I would take it out and try it for awhile to see what you experience.

Your C 2700 line stages are all tubed so the first non-tubed thing the signal sees is the input op-amps on your MC-601’s.

I’ve had the pleasure of listening to the Baltic 3 on my system. It’s a nice DAC, competitive in its price range. Enjoy it in good health!

:goodpost:

Hi Doug,

I am not surprised that adding the Lampizator improved your system compared to the C2700 internal DAC, and (as I've opined in the past based on my own disapointting MEN220 home demo) I would not be surprised if subtracting the MEN220 improved things again. If that is the case, you can sell the MEN220...and buy more gear!

Good luck

Peter