Marantz SA-KI Ruby vs. SA-10 Using RCA
 

Hi Folks,

I'm interested in getting one of either of these two disc spinners, and I'm looking for feedback from anyone who may have compared them using the single ended outputs on both rather than simply the single ended Ruby vs. the balanced SA-10. The amp I'd be using them with is RCA only, so the extra features of the SA-10's balanced circuitry would be unnecessary. I've been offered a 1200 buck trade-in on an old Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 3D, which was a Stereophile product of the year award winner in 2001. That trade-in brings the total cost of the SA-10 (new) to within 1100 of the KI-Ruby used. If the difference is not significant between the two pieces in single ended, I'd opt for the Ruby and keep both machines for the time being. If the difference is more significant, then obviously I should opt for the SA-10.

I hope I'm being clear today and thanks in advance for your suggestions as always.

I haven't compared but with the price difference between the two as large as it is, I have to think there's some difference.

Looking at the inside of the units suggests the KI-Ruby doesn't omit very much, in terms of components, though.

Unless you might need the balanced outputs in the future, I'm not sure it makes sense to debate the merits.

If you want the best sound they make, don't need the Musical Fidelity, and have a good trade-in price, go for the SA-10.

A bigger question in Korea might be deciding if the newest SA-12SE is an option along with the KI-Ruby if you're staying single ended.

Thanks for the response, Christian. The SA-12 is available here as well for a decent price, but I think I'd prefer to go with the slightly older Ruby because of the copper chassis. It's also cheaper used.

I've read on some forums that the differences between the Ruby and the SA-10 are not so dramatic. I've also read that they are. I haven't, however, read about any direct comparisons. Some have speculated that the real advantage of the SA-10 is the balanced circuitry and that's where the extra three pounds of mass comes from as well as the copper covered power supply. My suspicion is that in single ended, they might be quite close, but I wanted to check here first to see if anyone had any direct experience.

When my Esoteric X-05 SACD self-destructed this summer, I, too, looked into the Ruby vs the SA-10 (among others.) All my ICs are currently single-ended, as I like the ability to switch to my Hovland preamp sometimes, and it has no balanced connections. There seemed to be near-universal agreement that the SA-10 was better, but by how much varied person (& system) to person. I also asked Marantz America what the differences were. They said that in addition to the balanced circuitry & shielded transformer, select components in the signal path (caps, resistors, etc.) of the SA-10 were of a higher quality.

Here is the opinion someone voiced in response to this question on a different forum: "The SA-10 has the same sonic character as the Ruby. The SA-10 just offers a bit more of everything. Piano has more weight, soundstage is wider and deeper, everything is just a bit more real. I think the SA-10 is a really special piece and the Ruby isn’t far behind at significantly lower cost. It is a real value for how great it sounds. I use my SA-10 as a DAC through its digital inputs most of the time, but it really sounds best spinning discs. You can’t go wrong with either option."

I ended up ordering the SA-10 (at the end of July.) I was informed a few days ago that it had finally shipped from Japan. I can't wait. If a comparably-priced Luxman had been available, I would have considered that as well.

SOTA Cosmos TT (vacuum, Electronic Flywheel), SME V, Koetsu Rosewood Signature
Marantz SA-10 SACD player, Alesis ML-9600 mastering CD burner, Nakamichi 700 ZXE Cassette Deck
Pass Labs XP-15 phono stage
Pass Labs XP-30 (SS) & Hovland HP-100 (tube) preamps
Edge G8+ laser-biased monoblocks & Classé M-700 monoblocks
Rockport Atria & Infinity IRS Beta Speakers
Audience AU24 SX Phono cable, MIT Shotgun ICs, Shunyata Alpha SCs
Revelation Audio Labs 'Passage' CryoSilver Reference DualConduit DB-25 umbilical cables for Pass XP-30
Shunyata Denali 6000T power conditioner (on BBA platform), Shunyata Alpha NR, Delta NR, & Venom HC PCs. Also PS8 & 2 Venom Defenders.
Audio Magic Ultimate SHD Bees Wax Fuse, Synergistic Research Blue & Black fuses, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses
Klaudio LP200 ultrasonic RCM

Thanks Crumhorn. That's very helpful. I read that same opinion in the forum and figured that was the case but I didn't know if the distinguished characteristics also involved the use of balanced connections of the SA-10. However, your remark about the different caps and resistors provides an important additional bit of information.

They seem to be dumping the 10s where I live. Less than 3K US for each new at the audio vendors I frequent online.

Wow! I paid the full $7,000 U.S. (minus Ivan's AA subscriber discount) for it in July! I did my best to find out if it was about to be replaced, but everyone thought it would have another few years at the top of the line...

There's a trade war going on now between Korea and Japan. I think that may be a big part of it.

About 3153 in today's exchange rate:

https://www.wassada.com/view.php?num...y=2522r32&pg=1

I generally use in my head 1000 to the dollar, as it's a bit closer the real buying power and probably the real exchange rate as well

That's a real bargain price for such a wonderful unit!

Hi,
I'm considering upgrading my source in the next months/years.
I was leaning towards the Esoteric K-05Xs but have been reading a lot of great stuff about the SA-10 from Marantz. Price is not that different and both give you the ability to use as DAC which would be great for me to hook my streamer.
Just curious. Why didn't you stick to Esoteric? Do you find the SA-10 a better sounding machine?
Thank you!
Greetings from Lisbon, Portugal

Well, there are several reasons:

Firstly, contrary to the review I had read in The Absolute Sound, in my system the Esoteric X-05 never sounded as good as the reviewer said it did. (I chalk this up to differences in our systems, rooms, etc., NOT any bias or misrepresentation in the review...) It didn't have as much depth, dimensionality, naturally-rich timbre or analog-like "bloom" as I wanted. But played through the my tubed Hovland preamp for the first 7 years it was good enough. But for the last 3 years I have primarily used the Pass XP-30 preamp for practical reasons, & the X-05 sounded "thinner", far more "digital" & usually less like real music through the more-revealing Pass preamp. (Although a small number of recordings actually sounded better.) Whether that's a reflection of my system as a whole, or my musical preferences, or the Esoteric's performance, is hard to say. Perhaps a bit of all 3. So I was hoping for a more analog-sounding player this go round.

Secondly, I was not a happy camper about the much-vaunted Esoteric transport self-destructing, even though it was 10 years old. And there is only one authorized repair facility in the whole U.S., 3000 miles away from me, & if they needed a part from Japan it might take many months.

Thirdly, I did look into getting a new Esoteric, and was advised by 2 different, & trustworthy, Esoteric dealers that Esoteric had temporarily "abandoned" the U.S.: high-value orders they had already placed were unfilled, their calls to Esoteric were being ignored, & they eventually had to offer refunds (& apologies) to their customers. That was the final straw for me: I wrote off Esoteric & looked elsewhere. (Although apparently they are now back in the U.S. market, using a different distribution network.)

All that being said, I have seen some reviews, & read the Esoteric Forums of another online site, and the new Esoteric "XD" series (K-03XD & K-01XD) have gotten rave reviews & are supposed to sound far less "digital" & far more "real" than their predecessors. (Although not as analog as the Luxman D-10X.) But all those models are far more expensive than the SA-10 or the K-05Xs. I don't know if the Esoteric K-05Xs has the "older" sound or sounds more like the XD models, or if there will eventually be a K-05XD.

I would have considered a similarly-priced Luxman as well, but they discontinued all their old models, and so far have only released the D-10X, which I would love, but can't afford. There are not many choices for an SACD player between $5,000 & $12,000 in the U.S., so I went with the Marantz.

I can't comment on the sound of the SA-10 in my system, as I still haven't received it! (I ordered it in July.) Apparently Covid affected the supply chain. It is finally in transit, so I should have it soon.

If you have a chance to listen to the Esoteric in addition to the Marantz, see what you think... Good luck with your choice!


SOTA Cosmos TT (vacuum, Electronic Flywheel), SME V, Koetsu Rosewood Signature
Marantz SA-10 SACD player, Alesis ML-9600 mastering CD burner, Nakamichi 700 ZXE Cassette Deck
Pass Labs XP-15 phono stage
Pass Labs XP-30 (SS) & Hovland HP-100 (tube) preamps
Edge G8+ laser-biased monoblocks & Classé M-700 monoblocks
Rockport Atria & Infinity IRS Beta Speakers
Audience AU24 SX Phono cable, MIT Shotgun ICs, Shunyata Alpha v1 SCs
Revelation Audio Labs 'Passage' CryoSilver Reference DualConduit DB-25 umbilical cables for Pass XP-30
Shunyata Denali 6000T power conditioner (on BBA platform), Shunyata Alpha NR v1, Delta NR v1, & Venom HC PCs. Also PS8 & 2 Venom Defenders.
Audio Magic Ultimate SHD Bees Wax Fuse, Synergistic Research Blue & Black fuses, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses
Klaudio LP200 ultrasonic RCM

Dear Crumhorn,

Thank you so much for taking your time to write such a
thorough reply to my question. Sorry to hear about your disapointment with Esoteric regarding performance and customer service. Totally understand your position.
Really curious about the Marantz performance compared to the Esoteric. Please let us know about your impressions.

Thank you and greetings from Portugal
Andre

I have had the SA-10 connected to my system for almost 3 weeks now, but as it may be a defective unit, I won't describe what I hear until I determine it is functioning properly. :sigh:

Wow, sorry to hear that.

I'm still amazed by my SA-10 in combo with the PM-10, daily.
For a few months, I've been enjoying filter 1, dither off, and the noise shaping 3rd 1 settings. Sounds perfect to me.

I hope you get it figured figured out.

Thanks, Christian! My new SA-10 is definitely malfunctioning, & Ivan has ordered a replacement. I don't have a streaming setup, but it will only play odd-numbered tracks (files) from the USB thumb drives I have plugged in! (Multiple drives, file formats, resolutions & sources...) It displays an "Unsupported" error for all the even-numbered tracks, sometimes accompanied by scary-loud static that had me fearing for my speakers! Also the "Repeat All" setting got ignored for many discs, requiring lots of "trial & error" to find discs I could successfully use for break in.

Actually I hope it's defective, as I HATE the way it sounds on red book CD's, (very shrill, one-dimensional, bodiless instruments & voices, and a congealed mess when more than a few instruments/voices are playing simultaneously) & find its SACD sound OK but disappointing (similar, but much milder.) Given everything I've read, that isn't the way it should sound. It does have better soundstage depth than my Esoteric X-05 had, but in every other way sounds inferior.

It may take a few months to get a replacement unit – I'm hoping for the best...

I've heard this player.
It should play deliciously!
I'm sure your unit is defective, and Ivan will take care of it. :thumbsup:

With the descriptives you use, there’s gotta be something seriously amiss with the one you received.

A thread on another forum recommends turning off digital outputs and the headphone amp if you don’t plan on using them and suggested the sound quality improved. I’ve always had mine off but they’re on by default if I recall correctly.

Good luck and I hope the situation is resolved quickly!

The sound I described is with the digital outputs, headphone amp, & display turned off, & 300 hours of break-in on CD & 100+ on SACD. After a 5-month wait to receive it, it's very disappointing... :sigh:


SOTA Cosmos TT (vacuum, Electronic Flywheel), SME V, Koetsu Rosewood Signature
Marantz SA-10 SACD player, Alesis ML-9600 mastering CD burner, Nakamichi 700 ZXE Cassette Deck
Pass Labs XP-15 phono stage
Pass Labs XP-30 (SS) & Hovland HP-100 (tube) preamps
Edge G8+ laser-biased monoblocks & Classé M-700 monoblocks
Rockport Atria & Infinity IRS Beta Speakers
Audience AU24 SX Phono cable, MIT Shotgun ICs, Shunyata Alpha v1 SCs
Revelation Audio Labs 'Passage' CryoSilver Reference DualConduit DB-25 umbilical cables for Pass XP-30
Shunyata Denali 6000T power conditioner (on BBA platform), Shunyata Alpha NR v1, Delta NR v1, & Venom HC PCs. Also PS8 & 2 Venom Defenders.
Audio Magic Ultimate SHD Bees Wax Fuse, Synergistic Research Blue & Black fuses, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses
Klaudio LP200 ultrasonic RCM

I was thinking it would be hard not to consider the bad experience and be objective when the new one arrives, but I had a similar experience with my Levinson pre-amp, yet here I am, a few years later, still very happy with the replacement they sent me. Let us know what happens!

Will do!

I seem to have bad luck with SACD players. Before I had the Esoteric X-05, I had a Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista SACD player. They had designed it around a Phillips transport that turned out to have a fatal design flaw that caused the drives to fail after a few months. I had to send it back twice to have the defective drives replaced. When it failed for the 3rd time, Phillips had pulled the mechanism, so there were no replacements left. Unlike EMM Labs, which had also used that drive in their player, Musical Fidelity was unable (unwilling?) to find a substitute drive that would work, so the player couldn't be fixed & I was screwed.

So I replaced it with an Ayre C-5xeMP, which arrived defective, so I replaced it with the Esoteric. And now I received a defective Marantz. That's 3 out of 4 defective $7K SACD players in a row from 4 different well-respected brands! $7,000 may be chump change compared to the top-of-the-line from Esoteric, CH Precision, DCS, MSB, et al, but in my book it should, at the very least, ensure the kind of quality control that would catch a defective unit BEFORE it is shipped...

As I have seen nothing but positive reviews about the SA-10, I'm crossing my fingers that the replacement will live up to its reputation!

Sorry to hear about your experience. Any update on your SA-10 unit?

My dealer has received the replacement unit, but I'm still working on a safe way to receive it due to the rampant package theft problem in my city & building, & the unwillingness of the delivery services to honor the "signature required" option since Covid-19 began. So they leave ALL of my packages in the public lobby, & they are often stolen before I can get downstairs to get them. :sigh:

I'll post an update once I've received it.

Can you do a "hold for pick-up" and use Uber to retreive? I do that with most of my gear deliveries to be on the safe side (even though we live in a very safe area).
Good luck with all.

Thanks for the suggestion! I didn't know Uber would do that. My only concern would be, if the unit "disappears" after it reaches Uber's hands, would they be financially liable? (Without a prolonged court case...)

— John

My replacement SA-10 is *FINALLY* in my system, breaking in. :banana: It already sounds way better than the first one I received, but I'll wait a few more weeks before I give it my final assessment...

However, it still had the same problem playing files from a USB flash drive as the original. After a lot of detective work, & a happy coincidence, I came up with a fix.

Here it is, in case any SA-10 owners run in to this problem:

Marantz SA-10: Fix for USB Flash Drives (Mac users only)


There is an SA-10 issue that affects people attempting to play music files saved on USB flash drives by Apple Mac computers.

As the Marantz manual states, “This unit is compatible with USB memory devices in “FAT16” or “FAT32” format.” Those are both Windows-only storage formats – they are not native to Apple Mac computers. But the Mac can easily format a flash drive to the “FAT32” format using the “Disk Utility” app that is pre-installed on all Macs.

The problem arises when the Mac copies music files to a flash drive formatted in the Windows “FAT16” or “FAT32” formats: the Mac creates additional, hidden files, with identical filenames, on the flash drive in order to maintain Mac compatibility. These hidden files are called “AppleDouble” files. When you plug the flash drive in to the SA-10, it “sees” these additional hidden files, which are not music files, and malfunctions.

Unfortunately, even turning on the “see invisible files” setting on the Mac will not reveal these “AppleDouble” files, so there is no direct way to see or remove them.

The solution is to download a free Mac app called “Onyx” https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/onyx.html . Note that there are separate versions of Onyx for each version of the Mac OS – you must download the correct version! There may be other Mac utility apps that provide the same functionality, but I can confirm that this one works.

Each time you copy music files to the flash drive, open the Onyx app, select the “Files” tab at the top of the window, & then select the “AppleDouble” tab from the tab bar below the main one.

Click the “Select” button in the lower right corner, & choose the USB flash drive in the selection window. The “AppleDouble” files will immediately be deleted from the flash drive.

As the very next step, eject the thumb drive from the Mac before leaving the app.

The “AppleDouble” files that cause the SA-10 to have problems will be gone, and the flash drive will now play properly on the SA-10.

(Warning: DO NOT use any of the other functions of the Onyx app unless you know exactly what you are doing: it is not designed for casual users, & you can create serious problems on your computer if you mess around.)


SOTA Cosmos TT (vacuum, Electronic Flywheel), SME V, Koetsu Rosewood Signature, Pass Labs XP-15 phono stage, Klaudio LP200 ultrasonic RCM
Marantz SA-10 SACD player, Alesis ML-9600 mastering CD burner, Nakamichi 700 ZXE Cassette Deck
Pass Labs XP-30 (SS) & Hovland HP-100 (tube) preamps
Edge G8+ laser-biased monoblocks & Classé M-700 monoblocks
Rockport Atria & Infinity IRS Beta Speakers
Audience AU24 SX Phono cable, MIT Shotgun ICs, Shunyata Alpha v1 SCs
Revelation Audio Labs 'Passage' CryoSilver Reference DualConduit DB-25 umbilical cables for Pass XP-30
Shunyata Everest 8000 power conditioner w/Sigma v2 XC (on BBA platform), Shunyata Alpha NR v1, Delta NR v1, & Venom HC PCs. Also PS8 & 2 Venom Defenders.
Audio Magic Ultimate SHD Bees Wax Fuse, Synergistic Research Blue & Black fuses, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses

Well — my replacement Marantz SA-10 sure took a long time to break in! I've been playing it pretty much 24/7 since Sept. 2 (split between CD, SACD, & files on a USB flash drive), and it wasn't until a few days ago that the sound took a giant leap in quality. Just about every aspect of the sound improved significantly, & it finally sounds like the unit everyone has been praising so highly here & elsewhere! I'm hearing new, musically relevant, details on discs I've listened to for decades. Until now, I had been disappointed & underwhelmed. No more! It's now hard to end my listening sessions. Thanks, everyone, for the advice & encouragement!


SOTA Cosmos TT (vacuum, Electronic Flywheel), SME V, Koetsu Rosewood Signature, Pass Labs XP-15 phono stage, Klaudio LP200 ultrasonic RCM
Marantz SA-10 SACD player, Alesis ML-9600 mastering CD burner, Nakamichi 700 ZXE Cassette Deck
Pass Labs XP-30 (SS) & Hovland HP-100 (tube) preamps
Edge G8+ laser-biased monoblocks & Classé M-700 monoblocks
Rockport Atria & Infinity IRS Beta Speakers
Audience AU24 SX Phono cable, MIT Shotgun ICs, Shunyata Alpha v1 SCs
Revelation Audio Labs 'Passage' CryoSilver Reference DualConduit DB-25 umbilical cables for Pass XP-30
Shunyata Everest 8000 power conditioner w/Sigma v2 XC (on BBA platform), Shunyata Alpha NR v1, Delta NR v1, & Venom HC PCs. Also PS8 & 2 Venom Defenders.
Audio Magic Ultimate SHD Bees Wax Fuse, Synergistic Research Blue & Black fuses, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses

Glad to read you're enjoying it!

Happy for you!

Thanks All !