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Jerome W 08-20-2011 01:31 AM

Now I ' m truly lost !

I read again all the Stereophiles articles about Shindo gear yesterday and I' m really craving to buy the CCQ and at the same time, I cannot ignore what Matt told me and all the messages I received telling me that this was a crazy project.
Opposite to many, I like the idea of units built by hand by a company of 6 persons, with passion and love and a mind dedicated to music.
I like the idea of using old components.
I'm impressed by all the comments I read on the web both by owners and pro reviewers ( even if the last are pretty rare ) and those comments are very different from the usual ones you read about most products.
I looked at the discussion about the impedance of the EB1i and it does not seem to me that my speakers have the type of impedance that Shindo amps would love....:scratch2:
Basically, I have 3 choices :
- follow my instinct and order them. This is based on the love I had for the Verdier 845 class A Set amps. They managed the EB1i pretty good in the bass and the treble and were only 20 W in class A. So how come the Shindo CCQ could not do the job ? As I mentioned already, the 2301's will stay anyway so the Shindo won't have to play loud. Still, all amps are different. The Shindo could have more trouble than the Verdier !
- look elsewhere for an other flavor. At 15700 euros, there are many other amps I can consider to get an other flavor of sound. The first to come to mind is the Burmester 911 MK3 which retails in Europe for 15900 euros taxes included. This is not a low power option I know, but my goal is first of all "an other flavor" and not necessarily "lower power". All the things I read on this amp are just stunning and the flavor seems to be rather different than the typical Mc sound which I adore should I mention. But I could also consider second hand Lamm monoblocks....
- buy a Shindo preamp. But here, all my system falls down in an illogical path.
No more passthru for HT. No remote ! Sorry if I'm old fashionned here guys but I live in a real world with kids and wife than can enter the room anytime to talk to me....Moreover, I just bought a high end phono stage with balanced outputs.
I would have to sell it if the Shindo pre is equivalent for the phono section ( but seriously, even with the great things I read about them, I have serious doubts that the Shindo phono stage could be as good as the REF 2....).
So this is actually the last thing I would do.
- the option my wife would love to hear : stay exactly where I am since I love the sound of my system. I had a wonderful listening session yesterday night and I thought "why the hell do you want to change anything to this sound ? You have a killer system ! The 2301's will put down on their knees many many amps on the market ! ". And once really tired of my system, sell it all and buy a pair of Canterburys with a full Shindo set up !
Finally this last option seems to be the most logical to me.
In the meantime, I really want to hear the REF5 in my system and compare it to the C1000. This could also be an easy switch.

What do you think my friends ?
Please speak with honesty but respect towards people who have some gear that you may dislike. I don't want to start any polemic debate here.
Cheers,

chessman 08-20-2011 01:52 AM

Jerome, there has been a lot of excitement here lately about Shindo, and while I am sure it is very fine gear, we have seen prior waves of excitement come and go for other gear. For your situation, a low power SET amp does not make much sense for the reasons you have already stated. Yes, the pull of the Shindo reviews and the passion of our colleagues here appeal to the romantic in each of us, but does it make sense to design a system at cross-purposes with itself? If you were saying "I want a second system in a different flavor and I have the means" I would say go for Shindo. But you are not saying that at all. You are saying you want to keep most of what you have and just try a different amp. In that case, I think the Burmester would be a brilliant choice. It's reviews are strong. It's solid state character will be different than the MC2301 tubes. Resale would be a snap if you dislike it or it turns out to be merely redundant. Think of it - summers with Burmester and winters with McIntosh. :D

Tonepub 08-20-2011 02:38 AM

Give it a try and see what you think. As Randy said, you won't lose much if you don't like it and you will have gained valuable experience. To me that's the most important part of this hobby, some solid hands on experience.

I spent a fair amount of time with the SET and low power thing myself. Not my cup of tea, but I had the experience and know what it can do now. Enjoy!

Puma Cat 08-20-2011 02:50 AM

Jerome, Jeff gave you some good advice, and if I could offer some more, don't worry about what others think, do what makes you happiest.

If it were me, and the choice was the Shindo amp or the Burmester...well, it'd have to be Burmester. You'd get an incredibly musical amp (maybe not musical in the exact same sense as Shindo, but extremely musical nontheless. And, whose to say, with any electronic reproduction of recorded music, which flavor of musicality is the right one or the best one?), but also one with incredible power, grip, and control.

Volks 08-20-2011 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonepub (Post 194940)
Give it a try and see what you think. As Randy said, you won't lose much if you don't like it and you will have gained valuable experience. To me that's the most important part of this hobby, some solid hands on experience.

I spent a fair amount of time with the SET and low power thing myself. Not my cup of tea, but I had the experience and know what it can do now. Enjoy!



I agree 100% ......its the only way you will really find out......now in the meantime......about those 2301's?:) :D

howiebrou 08-20-2011 03:13 AM

Jerome,

As one medical professional to another, life is full of trials and tribulations, stresses. Imho, if you have the budget for it, go ahead and try it. Life is too short for regrets.

In fact I have the same headache as you. An Ongaku has no balanced inputs which makes it a pain the arse but then again, that is what the designer wanted. It means locating everything nearby and creates an enormous headache as far as connections and room arrangement and this in a place I have just lived for two months.

You want to add in a pair of Westminsters and you have triple the headache. So much that I have spent the afternoon rearranging furniture to see what can be done whilst preserving a living room look which is also important to me (in fact more so than to my wife!).

I am going to demo the Ongaku next week at home hopefully so we'll see.

I'm not trying to get you to spend your money but let's say they turn out to be everything you need? WOW! I would like be a fly on your wall!

Take a risk. If it doesn't work too well you have many options available including making a decision to build a system around it. You can bring it round to all your friends and try it with their speakers. what fun!

You make me want to get a pair and do the same! :music:

howie

Removed 08-20-2011 03:19 AM

I know buying gear is always fun but if you haven't done so I would look at treating your room....I don't mean just throwing up a few panels, consult with someone and take some measurements and design something that has a high WAF.....a crappy sounding room always a crappy sounding room, doesn't matter what gear you throw at it.....just my two cents worth.

Jerome W 08-20-2011 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A/V Solutions
I know buying gear is always fun but if you haven't done so I would look at treating your room....I don't mean just throwing up a few panels, consult with someone and take some measurements and design something that has a high WAF.....a crappy sounding room always a crappy sounding room, doesn't matter what gear you throw at it.....just my two cents worth.

Jeff,
You're absolutely right.
My room is far from having a wonderful acoustic and would benefit from treatments for sure but :
- people who heard my system without the Room Perfect in action found it very good
- Room Perfect made a huge improvement
- I 'm tweaking the position of the speakers since nearly 2 years now and I can tell now that I'm not far at all from the perfect balance. Bill advices helped me a lot for that.
- Treatments with high WAF are no so easy to find.
I know that the room does not sound at its best yet, but still, the system is sounding extremely good for my ears : better than most of the demos I get in shows or dealers rooms ! I will see what the other great Jeff (tonepub) says about it when he will be here in Paris, but personnaly I'm fully satisfied with the sound I get now.
The only thing is : I'm having a wonderful chocolate ice cream. That is the best chocolate I ever tasted. But sometimes, I would just like a vanilla ice cream !

cmalak 08-20-2011 09:49 AM

Jerome...I have 3 different avenues of advice:

#1: Stay away from reading AA for the next 2-4 weeks, or if you can't do that, just make sure to not read anySHindo-related threads, or anything that Serge, Alberto, Jayson (adhesiv), and Scott (sibelius) post because there is likely something Shindo-related there :D. After this "cool down period," (this is like taking a cold shower...) you can see if you still have the "hots" for Shindo (somehow I don't think you are going to do this and if you do it's not going to work :laughin:)
#2: As Howie says, if you are not worried about the financial hit, buy the CCQ and if it does not match up well with the EB1is, then you can resell it (hopefully for a minimal loss). As others have said, the odds are likley it will not be a great match (not in terms of being able to drive the EB1is to healthy SPLs but in terms of tonal balance, which is the issue you had with the Verdier in the midrange with female vocals) but you will never know until you try it.
#3: Audition the Burmester and Ref 5 in your system (both should be locally available for auditions I assume) and decide which one gives you more of a different flavor in your system. My sense is you will get more of a shift with the Burmester (as compared to your 2301s), vs. the difference between the C1000P and the Ref 5. Also, Randy's suggestion of using the Burmerster in the summer and the MC2301s in the winter, I thought was a great idea.

I know there is not much new here in terms of suggestions but that's the way I see it. I really do thing if you want to go Shindo, it makes more sense to do a complete system change by starting with new speakers and then building the Shindo chain for it.

Good luck.

sibelius 08-20-2011 09:59 AM

A Shindo amp on its own is probably not the way to go. I always recommend that prospective owners start out with a Shindo preamp or preferably a preamp/amp combo. IMO, that's where much of the Shindo magic is.


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