Not necessarily, and that was my point. If you're connected to a 240VAC 30A circuit, there's no way to simultaneously fully power two 120V 20A circuits - to say nothing of yet another single 120V 10 amp circuit. (And remember, there is some inherent loss of power in the Equi-Tech transformer itself, because of heat.) That's why the design of the Equi-Tech just doesn't make sense to me.

2 * 20 amp 120 volt circuits is only 4,800 watts or only 2/3rds of the 7,200 watt potential provided by the 240 volts, 30 amp input.

A simpler way to look at this is, a 2-phase 240 volt 30 amp circuit is actually TWO * 120 volt 30 amp circuits (each leg of the 2-phase circuit is a single phase 120 volt 30 amp circuit). Since 2 * 120 volt @ 30 amps has 1/3rd more current potential than 2 * 120 volt @ 20 amps, your statement above does NOT make sense (unless there is over 1/3rd loss).

Cleed, please show me where the MATH does NOT work. If you notice, there is already 1,200 watts of room provided for "inherent loss" of all 3 combined circuits.

Here are the calculations again:

amps * volts = watts

240 volts * 30 amps = 7,200 watts (maximum input into the isolation transformer)

120 volts * 20 amps * 2 = 4,800 watts (maximum outputs 1 & 2)
120 volts * 10 amps = 1,200 watts (maximum output 3)

(4,800 + 1,200 watts) = 6,000 watts < 7,200 watts (Note: 3 * 120 volts * 20 amps = 7,200 watts, but Equi=Tech probably designed in a safety margin)

Nope, you're correct! I plead "brain-freeze" and am amazed I didn't understand this from the get-go. You are absolutely correct.

<hanging head in shame.>

TRANSFORMER EFFICIENCY:

According to this article, "Transformers are the most highly efficient electrical devices. Most of the transformers have full load efficiency between 95% to 98.5% ."

5% of 7,200 watts is 360 watts. The Equi=Tech unit discussed above has left 1,200 watts room between input and output specs which is an 18.2% margin.

http://www.electricaleasy.com/2014/0...fficiency.html

My dealer convinced me to sell my Isoclean 3030G II and SuperFocus in/out cables along with the Isoclean 6 position power bar -- replacing it with Ansuz Mainz grounding bar (8D)and a Ansuz Mainz Ceramic power cable. Ordered.

Best,

Bob

Power conditioner/Amps
 

Mono blocks fed through Audioquest 7000 from dedicated 20 amp. line. All other equipment goes to the 7000.

The Trace... Welcome to AA! :wave:

My BAT VK-600SE is plugged into the IsoTek Sigmas... No dynamic loss, everything sounds better and this way I've got surge protection too! :D
__________________
Amp: BAT VK-655SE
Pre-amp/Digital: exaSound e32 w UpTone JS-2 Power Supply; SOtM tX-USBultra w UpTone LPS1.2; Apple Mac Mini w UpTone DC Conversion Kit & UpTone JS-2 Power Supply; Squeezelite w Logitech Media Server 7.9.0
Speakers: Triangle Magellan Cello II
Cables: AudioQuest WEL XLR, AudioQuest Everest, AudioQuest Hurricane HC, AudioQuest NRG-1000, AudioQuest Diamond USB
Rack: Solid Tech Hybrid
Tweaks: Omicron Stabilizzatore Armonico & Gold Evolution SE; IsoTek Sigmas GII w Optimum EVO3; Furutech FT-SWS (R) AC Outlet; Synergistic Research Blue Quantum Fuse

Running my entire system via a Shunyata Denali 6000T. Prior to this, I had a running springs Jaco and Duke. In both cases preferred the amps though the conditioner vs straight to wall.

I am a firm believer in power conditioners. I learned the hard way trying to keep our computer network at the office running without "glitches."
However, I only use "Double Conversion" power conditioners. A Double Conversion (aka Dual Conversion) unit takes the A/C from the wall outlet, converts that to D/C and then charges the battery array. Then, it takes the D/C from the battery array and converts that to regulated pure sine wave power.
Most power conditioners (unless they specifically say Double Conversion or Dual Conversion) are "Line Interactive" units. A line interactive unit runs its output from the A/C from the wall outlet until it senses a problem with the incoming A/C power. Then it switches to the backup battery to provide power. There is always some time delay in this switch over process (perhaps microseconds, or milliseconds, but still a delay). Switching power supplies (commonly found in computers, or computer based units) can be VERY sensitive to ANY switch over time, no matter how short.
Most high end audio units do not use switching power supplies, but use the "old fashioned" power supplies with big transformers and big capacitors. These are not typically sensitive to switch over time delays. But, a lot of digital components are computer based, and use switching power supplies.
Even though my McIntosh power amps all have big (read that HEAVY) power transformers, and capacitors big enough to electrocute someone, I still plug my power amps (and all components) into dual conversion power conditioners. With the power conditioner making highly regulated sine wave power, I know the power going into the amp is cleaner than the local utility power.
There are power conditioners that treat the a/c before they send it to the components. But, many of these do not have battery backup. Even the ones with battery backup have to switch to the battery in case of power failure (thus creating the switch over timing problem). On the Gulf Coast we have a lot of storms coming in, especially in the summer. Even a good windstorm can blow a tree down over power lines, causing power interruption. Some components loose their settings if power is lost. So, then one must go back through the setup process on these units. Battery sourced power is the only way I have found to avoid this process.
The only downside to Double Conversion power conditioners is cost. A 2,000VA unit will be about $2,000 new. A 3,000VA unit will be about $3,000. Used, refurbished, units can be found for about half these amounts.
The biggest problem with used/refurbished units, is that they are typically older technology, many of them only 70% efficient. So, a 2,000VA unit may only deliver 1,400 usable watts. Even newer units typically do not exceed 90% efficiency.
Another problem is cooling fans. Since Dual Conversion power supplies are really industrial units, they do not worry about fan noise. At home, I have the power conditioner for the Audio System in the Attic. The power conditioner for the Video system is in a cabinet with closed doors. At the office, it is in a closet. When I tried to mount the power conditioner in the same rack as the audio units, the fan noise got in the way.
I try to get units with enough power to everything can plug into the unit. Otherwise, different components may have a different path to ground - raising ground loop hum difficulties. If the problem is with digital source units, the problem can be solved with toslink connections. But otherwise different paths to ground (at least with unbalanced connections) can create ground loop problems.
But - at the risk of repeating myself - my real reason for using double conversion power conditioners is that it generates highly regulated pure sine wave A/C.
As someone said earlier in this thread - the best components deserve to be fed the best power.
Or as I read 30 years ago (when everything was analog) "when you listen to your power amp, remember you are not listening to the original signal - you are listening to what comes out of your power supply as modified by that original signal."

A few hours ago, i took home a brand new transparent reference power isolator.
Everything including my vitus sia 025 is directly plugged into it. Well to say my system now is unbearably bright is an understatement, its like listening to someone sharpening
A knife..its that bad.
What do guys think is the problem?

It's your mood. Give it a listen when you are less distracted and relaxed. I am serious.. :smoking:

I'm not familiar with the Transparent Reference power isolator but give it time to burn in. I would say at least 100-200 hours to settle in.

Cant relax listening to the sound of “grating”.:nono:

Do you think break in can significantly reduce harshness? I mean
I slight sibilance i can probably gamble, but its reallly “headache
Inducing”.

I would think it can only get better. I've never really had any equipment sound as bad as you are stating right out of the box.

If after a few days if there isn't any type of improvement I would let the dealer know.

I used to own a Reference Power Isolator and it certainly was not bright at all in my system, but I did not plug amplification into it. It seems as if something may not be right with it. I would call Transparent as they are usually very accomodating and helpful.

Sound advice from PHC1. I plugged my entire system into a Shunyata Denali V2 and I heard a nice improvement right out of the box.

Burn-in does not change a component all that much, just degrees - to my ears at least. If you don’t like it now that is a problem.

May i know why you no longer have the power isolator?

So i did removed the integrated amp and directly connected
It to the wall outlet — big improvement, but still bright for my
Taste, i mean i bought the isolator for my equipments protection
And it just “diminishes” its value if i cant connect a part of my
Sytem to it.

I do have an option of having it swapped for the reference
Speaker cable, right now using audience au24 sx. Might go
This route if no improvement within a couple of days.

It di significanly lowered noise floor, but midrange sibilance
Is still excessive.

I was offered a demo unit of the denali v2 before going to
Transparent.

Having lots of remorse right now. I really love transparent
Cables though.

So i may have spoken to soon.

I did follow phc1 and my dealers advice to relax and to give the
Conditioner time to “settle in” for a couple of hours, this and my
Reducing my speakers toe in removed about 70% of the sibilance.

I was only given 3 days by the dealer to decide on the purchase.
I did remove the conditioner and again plug everything to the wall,
The effect was like putting speaker grills losing some micro details.

So my question is what is this “settling in” period and how does this
Differ from actual “break in”, if theres such a thing, whats the difference
Between the two.

When the Shunyata Everest came out I wanted to compare it to the Transparent and I also like the form factor of the Everest. While I did prefer the Everest this had nothing to do with brightness. My amp is separate from my other audio components that reside in a rack on the side wall, so I never had the intention to plug my amp into the Power Isolator. Transparent also recommended that the best results may be achieved by plugging the amp directly into the wall.

All of my interconnect, speaker and most power cables were Transparent Reference or above at the time.

Whenever existing cables are moved, or new cables are put into place in a system there is a period of time where the cables need to “settle in”. The sound can change based on the alteration of the signal and power flow as it pertains to the structure of the internal cable components. This can also be true for other electronics or components that are connected together in the system.

“Break-in” is more related to the optimization of the individual components or circuit parts that comprise the entirety of the finished product. Depending on the type of parts implemented this can yield a significant change as the process takes place. Often there is a larger percieved or audible change in the first 50-100 hours with more subtle differences beyond. The type of internal parts like capacitors, metalurgy or in the case of speakers the driver design and materials can all influence the time necessary for optimization.

Buddy, imagine if all that which you just said was actually true... All the super precise laboratory equipment and every particle accelerator in the world would be a complete waste of time....

Never mind today's experiment Dr.Kaminishu, Joey from janitorial services unplugged the electron microscope again...



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/bd...3586a0b4b3.gif

There is no break in. The electronic parts are manufactured with tolerances in factories which are guaranteed not to drift or we could never get to the Moon or Mars... Your doctor would not be able to get an accurate diagnosis because the MRI or CAT machine in the hospital was using the "wrong" power cord... OK? :D


In audio, the "ears" and the "mood" are the break in process. It goes something like this.... We run home with that new component. Expectations are very high from a multi-thousand dollar power isolator... We often will grab the most exciting CD or worse yet, a new and unheard CD for the celebration!

When reality does not meet expectations, the shock to the system makes everything sound like dog excrement... :D

Take a deep breath, let it "settle", let it "burn in" but in reality, let your mood and blood pressure return to normal. :D

There is no break in audio. Can't be. The components are no different than the ones in your household appliances or any other electronic device...

Ever wonder why the iPhone never needs a break in? It just works from the box doesn't it? Imagine those spicy texts going to the wrong recipient if the iPhone was not broken in yet? :D


Having said that and laughed a bit, we can on a serious note say the following... Speakers do benefit from a break in. The mechanical parts of the driver or the "suspension" needs to work itself in and loosen up. The speaker becomes more relaxed and coherent. Smoother sound. It should not take long.

As far as the Transparent Power Isolator. The only "possible" component that can potentially change its value ever so slightly are the fancy filtering capacitors they put in those devices. The "forming" of the capacitors as it is called typically applies to the bigger capacitors of the less usual construction compared to the mass produced capacitors used in everything, including Elon Musk SpaceX rockets... :yes:

The Transparent piece you have is not an "active" device. Not a power regenerator. It is mostly a "parallel device" that filters and isolates the outlets. So there is really nothing to break in or affect the sound so it sounds like "grating", "harsh", "screeching" or any other adjective like that.

There are many variables... a system that has not reached its potential from synergy of various of components and/or speakers that are not agreeing with your ears and/or music recording that you are not very familiar with and God knows there are a lot of bad recordings.


What were your troubles with the system when you went to the audio store for the power isolator?

Well thankfully you are here and have all of the answers and facts.

My statements are only based on what I have experienced and information manufacturers have shared with me based on equipment I have owned.
I was merely offering insight with my posts and the questions being asked on the current model Transparent Reference Power Isolator that I owned and had in my system for over a year and never sounded bright.

Only trying to help someone that outlayed a lot of money, but I will let your opinion prevail going forward as I am out.

That aligns with my experience.

Don't take it personally Buddy. It was not directed at you but rather at the madness that has accrued over the past decades. Being around audiophiles who fuel the madness that goes completely against any scientific evidence and even against component manufacturers that our audio gear is built from to begin with.

In the face of no evidence, we will stand up and say, "We hear that, which can not be measured! Measurements be damned, my ears know better"!

Except that even professional musicians mistake a Stradivarius violin from a modern violin while being blind folded, all the while being very vocal about the Stradivarius sounding so distinct is is unmistakable. No way anyone can mistake them right? Well.... https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...ence-says-nope

The problem is that we think our memory is "bit perfect". It is not. It is a very abstract apparatus... Many of the memories are simple overlays of what actually happened and they are not 100%. When it comes to an "aging audiophile" ear that is not even "musically trained" or "does not have pitch perfect hearing" and recalling what they think they heard an hour ago or a week, a month ago?? Seriously? :D



At some point the rational audiophile will return but it will be a long journey home... :sigh:

I welcome any scientific evidence of gear burn in and its effect on sound outside what some claim they remember hearing over the break in process....

Please... I will be waiting with anticipation. :yes:

Perfect example of being an audiophile so long that the "reasonable explanation" that we simply hear differently throughout the day, that the mood affects how we perceive things is no longer necessary. Not even for an engineer. Turns out Burn-in is not only real but it is not even permanent! A component will return to its original unbroken in state! I don't meant to laugh but it is just what this hobby does to us.

This is Paul McGowan. :smoking:

Is Burn in Real?


https://youtu.be/lJFnlDTtsBA

No, Physiology definitely holds no candle next to audiophilia... :smoking:


Laurel vs. Yanny: Why Do We Hear or See Things Differently?

https://youtu.be/E_iLOBOAnVQ

Thank you.

I do believe in break in. The settling part was kind of new to me.

Whenever i have a new component in my system, the first thing
I do is play a couple of songs that are familiar to me for a couple
Days. One of them is alison krauss “gravity”, not only do i love
This song, but her voice err on the sibilant side if i have an unba-
Lanced system — bright to be exact. When i bought a new set of
Speaker wires and interconnect i could definitely tell that my new
Ancilliaries are “breaking in” due to to the gradual softening of the
“Zzzzzzzz”, mind you i dont listen to the bass, soundstage width or
Depth or other changes that may occur. I just concentrate on the
Voices lower mids.

People might think that we just “get used to or adapt” to the new
Sound, but in my humble opinion changes sometimes depends
On your system’s tranparency, and sometimes this “tranparency”
Is directly proportional to equipment cost. The higher the price—
The more revealing it becomes.

People tend to malign our own “perception and hearing” based
On their system — this is where the problem lies, “their system”.
Im not here to argue or insult anybody’s equipment implying
“ you dont hear it because your system is cheap”, this is my
Humble opinion based on climbing a ladder that i see has no
End.

Thank you


I live in a mountainous area where lightning and thunder is
A pain in my arse. In fact, my house got hit by lightning twice
Last year, luckily i was there to unplugged everything before
It happened.

So my primary goal for the conditioner is more on its “protection”
Benefits rather than what it will bring sonically.

I do believe you are wrong when it comes to “break in”, im not
Here to argue and i did answer my opinion to —audio 1’s— post.
That opinion was based on my personal journey.

Now for the power isolator..... it’s already boxed and ready
To go back to the dealer...this thing is not for me sonically.

Sure, good luck with the next one. Keep climbing that ladder. :music:

Do you have whole house surge protection? If so (e.g., recommended by Shunyata and others), you can plug your amp straight into the wall for better sound with less worry. Probably not practical if you live in an apartment, but if you own your own home, pretty inexpensive first line of defense protection.

Should I even mention I had over $30k of gear destroyed with the surge protection in place during a nasty lightning storm? Yeah, that happens... :sigh:

Best protect yourself with real "professional" products at the panel. :smoking:

I have 4 layers of surge protection in each one of my homes. My Florida home literally took a direct lightning strike on the roof peak.

It blew the Tiles right off the roof; Firemen responded, and checked all the walls with thermal scanners for any signs of hidden fire. Luckily no fire, and even more amazing not a single piece of audio gear was harmed.

Total damage was a single wall dimmer, and a PlayStation that’s all. :)

How do you protect your whole house from surge?

My experience was when i got hit directly by lightning,
( i though it was an earthquake ) a couple of my electric
Fan got destroyed, some light bulb exploded. Lots of my
Appliances survived —thank you lightning rod— but i just
Cannot take chances when it comes to my sound system.

My friend lost a very nice house... Lightning strike somehow set the attic on fire and a gas line valve was also damaged. The baby sitter heard a noise upstairs and said she saw flames shooting out of the wall. Grabbed the baby and the dog and ran out. The fire department came but the house burned down to the ground faster than a matchbox. :sigh: The family lost all personal belongings, various collectible items, etc but fortunately no one was hurt! It took them over 16 months to rebuild the house from the foundation up.

Sorry to hear that. I mean you have surge protection? Isnt that its
Purpose?

4 layers of protection? —wow—-, i bet that cost more than my
Sound system:D