Mid-bass subwoofer?
 

Hello AudioAficonado world!

I’m looking for recommendations on a subwoofer that excels with mid-bass frequencies as well as “regular” bass frequencies.

I haven’t owned a lot of subwoofers over the years but of all the subwoofers I have owned, NONE have sounded so beautifully melodic in the mid-bass as did my TANNOY PS350 that I unfortunately parted with.

Now, it's true I can find the Tannoy PS350 online in used condition (there's one for sale on eBay at the time of this writing).

However, I'd like to find a suitable UPGRADE from the Tannoy PS350 that sounds just as musical, melodic and amazing, or better! Especially in the mid-bass frequencies. Furthermore I'd like to find one that has balanced XLR inputs, which the Tannoy PS350 did not, unfortunately.

THOUGHTS?

NOTE: I own a JL Fathom F113 v1 and a Focal Chorus SW 700 V and neither blends well with my Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 floor standers, or my Focal Chorus 705V bookshelf speakers. (yes, oddly enough the "matching" Focal sub doesn't blend as well with the Focal Chorus 705V as did the Tannoy PS350 sub, go figure.) I have also owned a Velodyne V-1012-B and a BIC America F12 and neither of them could perform well in the mid-bass to blend well with bookshelf speakers, or "lean" floor-standers.

PS. I believe this is the first thread I have ever started so apologies if it’s not up to spec.

PPS. See also this post in the "Lets hear about the gear you parted with and regret letting it go" thread.

You’ve begun the thread just fine!

Cool topic! I’m curious as well. Love obscure subwoofers-

Good thread! :tresbon:

Let’s dissect what you have experienced. What do you think the Fathom/Venere combo lacked?

How have you placed the sub, set the levels, crossover points and adjusted the phase of the Fathom?

it's a shame you don't consider a unpowered sub

Thanks for the idea. I hand’t thought of that. Sure, I’ll consider a passive subwoofers. Any suggestions?

@crwilli , GREAT questions and thanks for asking.

So, actually, I haven't played with various placements of the Fathom F113 v1, because I like it smack dab in the middle of a 2.1 channel setup. It just feels like the sound field is unbalanced when a sub is NOT in the middle (no matter how I tweak the sub's settings & crossover etc).

I don't know if its because it bothers my OCD with symmetry whenever a sub is NOT centered, that my brain has me believe I hear (albeit psycho-acoustically) an unbalance sound field (bass off-center). Or if low frequencies really are off center & not blended well at the prime listening position. That said, it's not the best reason to have the sub always in the middle of a 2 channel setup. But it's my reason. :)

This approach works for me with my main system: B&W 800 D2 with a single F113 v1 Fathom centered between them. The 800 D2 and F113 are dialed in "perfectly" (for my taste) such that the 800 D2 roll off right where the Fathom can roll in and I experience audio nirvana as a result. :yes:

When I had the Tannoy PS350 paired with the Venere 3 it gave me a similar feeling of audio nirvana. And in this case the Tannoy sub was also centered between the left & right speakers.

When I tried to use the Fathom F113 v1 with the Venere 3, the Fathom sounded too punchy (not natural nor smooth to me) at its top frequencies. (I had the F113's crossover set at its highest frequency setting of 130hz). And punchy bass at its top frequencies notwithstanding, it still sounded like there were frequencies I was missing that the Venere 3 was not producing (at least loudly enough) and that the Fathom was not producing either.

I guess the next best thing I could do would be to get a mic, & measure a frequency sweep of the Venere 3 so I'd know at what frequency they begin to roll off at my primary listening position.

And then measure at what frequency the Fathom rolls in at where I don't feel it sounds unnatural to me.

Then overlay the 2 curves to see where I have a dip in frequencies.

Or is there another way I should go about this?

Mid-bass subwoofer?
 

Here are my thoughts IMHO.

- 130Hz is too high a crossover point.
… Your Venere 3.0s go down to 38 Hz.

…At 130 Hz, your Fathom is operating at its limits.

…You don’t want to ‘hear’ your sub. Ideally you should not be able to locate it.

I would optimize the Veneres position to give you the best bass performance possible before ever hooking up the sub.

If you must stick with your sub in between the Veneres, at least have it flush with their fronts. Set its level to be about the same as your mains. Then start setting the crossover. I would start low and work it up slowly. Say 40Hz.

Most importantly, each time you set the crossover, you must readjust the phase to your mains. This ‘times’ the wave front from your sub to be the same as your mains. (Not absolutely but the best you can)

Do this by unplugging one speaker. Then reverse the connections on the remaining speaker. With a Friend, have them slowly turn the PHASE control on your Fathom while you are in your listening position, to a test tone just below or at your crossover point. (I find just below works best). You are listening for the bass tone volume to fall off to a minimum. At its lowest level, you will have adjusted the wave fronts for the sub and your mains. IF you have to turn the PhASE control past 180degrees, put it back to zero, set your other phase switch from 0 to 180 and repeat. Use whichever setting allows the PHASE control to be less than 180. Using a sound pressure meter makes this easy.

Now correct your speaker connections, reconnect the other speaker. RUN the DARO and listen.

You want to hear bass notes but not necessarily be able to locate the sub. If you can, it’s volume is probably too high.

Experiment

What Craig said above; I run dual subs in each of my 2-Channel systems. The only exception is in my home Theaters, where I run 4 subs in each.

I can’t localize my subs in any of my rigs; the are all set up correctly and mesh seamlessly with the Mains.

Thanks @crwilli and @masterlu. I’ll give that a try. …now, how to make time for that sooner than later? ;)