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-   -   Krell Evolution 202 vs Krells newer preamps (https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=20023)

Apexorca 03-20-2013 02:34 AM

Krell Evolution 202 vs Krells newer preamps
 
Hi!

Right now I'am using Krell 402 driven by Audio Research LS27.

What do you think happens if I bring Krell Evolution 202 into the game instead?

I also wonder whats happened with the sound with newer Krell Preamps, Phantom and Phantom II, compared to The Evolution 202?

I also wonder if anybody knows if I can connect my Home cinema processor front speaker pre out to the Evolution 202 so the signal goes through the 202 directly to the amp. (I don't know whats it called, in Audio Research the connection is called Processor)

/Apexorca

Still-One 03-20-2013 07:58 AM

I thought the Phantom sounded very good when I auditioned one in my system last year. I have never tried the 202 so I cannot offer a comparison. Usually I would always go with the newer model as long as the price difference is not a factor.

Apexorca 03-20-2013 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still-One (Post 463724)
I thought the Phantom sounded very good when I auditioned one in my system last year. I have never tried the 202 so I cannot offer a comparison. Usually I would always go with the newer model as long as the price difference is not a factor.

Hi Still-One!

I agree with you that newer models usually is better.
To day I heard that It's no difference between 202 and Phantom. Just some gadgets. I heard it from a initiated source but I doubtful about that. It should be something more.

I'v just started a test in my own system with the 202 and must give it at least a week before I make up my mind, but it's not making me unhappy so far, so to speak.

/Apexorca

Apexorca 03-29-2013 03:38 AM

I have tried Krell EVO 202 for a week now. No doubt it's a killer. My Pre amp Audio Research Ls27 have no ability to compete against it.
The 202 presents everything in the music better. More control, the background is darker, It feels softer but still more high definition, more micro and macro dynamics.
The difference was bigger than I had expected. LS27 is not bad, its still good but beaten by evo 202.

Phantom product line is not that big difference compared to evo 202 ore evo 222, I have been told by a dealer I trust.

Conclusion: Krell evo 202 works very well together with Krell evo 402. No wonder.
I don't aim for the Phantom.
202 may stay...

raidho 03-29-2013 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apexorca (Post 469074)
Conclusion: Krell evo 202 works very well together with Krell evo 402. No wonder.
I don't aim for the Phantom.
202 may stay...

I agree 100%.

I had a Evo 202 and a friend have a new phantom. -> allwys with a 302e.

stay with the 202, invest in the phantom = waste your money.

The price difference between Evo and Phantom does not justify the money to invest.
raidho

Still-One 03-29-2013 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apexorca (Post 469074)
I have tried Krell EVO 202 for a week now. No doubt it's a killer. My Pre amp Audio Research Ls27 have no ability to compete against it.
The 202 presents everything in the music better. More control, the background is darker, It feels softer but still more high definition, more micro and macro dynamics.
The difference was bigger than I had expected. LS27 is not bad, its still good but beaten by evo 202.

Phantom product line is not that big difference compared to evo 202 ore evo 222, I have been told by a dealer I trust.

Conclusion: Krell evo 202 works very well together with Krell evo 402. No wonder.
I don't aim for the Phantom.
202 may stay...

Are you running in CAST mode?

Apexorca 03-29-2013 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still-One (Post 469125)
Are you running in CAST mode?

Yes! Nordost CAST.
I'll compare CAST and Valhalla XLR in my system soon, but I'v heard this test before and it's very easy to hear the difference.

New guy 03-30-2013 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apexorca (Post 463661)
Hi!

Right now I'am using Krell 402 driven by Audio Research LS27.

What do you think happens if I bring Krell Evolution 202 into the game instead?

I also wonder whats happened with the sound with newer Krell Preamps, Phantom and Phantom II, compared to The Evolution 202?

I also wonder if anybody knows if I can connect my Home cinema processor front speaker pre out to the Evolution 202 so the signal goes through the 202 directly to the amp. (I don't know whats it called, in Audio Research the connection is called Processor)

/Apexorca

Excellent setup. I always wanted to try a Krell preamp. I have owned several Krell amps but never a preamp. I would be interest in your impression of XLR vs. Cast.

Rich

Apexorca 04-07-2013 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New guy (Post 470214)
Excellent setup. I always wanted to try a Krell preamp. I have owned several Krell amps but never a preamp. I would be interest in your impression of XLR vs. Cast.

Rich

Have this weekend, together with a friend, compared Nordost Valhalla XLR and Nordost CAST MMF in my system. MSB, Krell evo 202, Krell evo 402, Sonus Faber Amati Futura.

CAST i smaller, thinner and cheaper. It runs the signal from pre amp to amp. If you have got a cd from Krell (Cipher) you can use it from the cd to the pre amp as well.

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1707.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1358.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l...o/file-261.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1552.jpg

In the beginning it was not easy to detect big differences. After a while more and more things were clear.
CAST have bigger dynamics especially the microdynamics and also more detailed. Especially a cymbal in Rosalia de Souca - d'improvviso track 8 on CD. After 1 minute a cymbal starts in the right channel in a quite high tempo. With CAST we could hear the strokes by the wooden stick and hear the sound from the hit reduces during the short period of time and changes until it was hit again. All this very clear. But with Valhalla XLR we could not hear the hit and the changes i sound during the time between the hits. Then this was detected we heard many more positive things with the CAST MMF cable.

My conclusion is that if it is possible to use the CAST. Do so. It is probably the best.

Apexorca

New guy 04-07-2013 07:40 PM

Apexorca,

Thank you for your informative report on CAST vs. XLR. I wish Krell would make a HT processor with CAST outputs that cost much less than the Krell 707. I use my 403E for music and home theater and ideally, I would like to connect the amp to the processor with CAST and XLR to a tube preamp for 2 channel music.
RCA and XLR inputs can't be connected at the same time but CAST and XLR/RCA can.

Thanks again.

A.Wayne 04-07-2013 09:23 PM

Anyone had a chance to compare evo series to FPB series , currently running a pr of FPB monos and looking into trying an evo ...

Regards...

Apexorca 04-21-2013 04:43 PM

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l...o/file-228.jpg

Krell evo 202.

The powersupply and the preamp is standing on top of each other. They are built that way.
Anyone experienced any differences in sound if they stand on top of each other with origianal feet ore with other feet or if they stand separated?

/Apexorca.

Luv4nature 04-25-2013 11:09 AM

Very substantial improvement if you can place the preamp unit on a separate shelf instead of resting on top of the psu unit (shelf distance needs to be within the umbilical power cord's length though). Further improvement if the preamp unit is isolated on a good footer (such as Boston Audio Design tuneblock) instead of resting on its stock rubber feet.

Mr Froggy 05-11-2013 03:05 AM

I have a 222 Evo pre and I'm so happy to use it everyday in couple with a 302 in cast mode. I think Phantom's serie is a re-name of 2x2's serie and Krell had added one reference.

Apexorca, you have a nice picture! Do you have one of your system?

Yannick

Apexorca 05-11-2013 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Froggy (Post 490615)
I have a 222 Evo pre and I'm so happy to use it everyday in couple with a 302 in cast mode. I think Phantom's serie is a re-name of 2x2's serie and Krell had added one reference.

Apexorca, you have a nice picture! Do you have one of your system?

Yannick


Thanks Yannick!

I try to hide the equipment as much as I can. MSB needs some handling, therefore it's uncovered on top.

The remote goes through the doors.

Here you go. Pictures.

From listening position.
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l...o/file-358.jpg

Doors off.
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1612.jpg

HiFi gear.
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1954.jpg

Krell.
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1645.jpg

turntable 05-11-2013 06:58 AM

Sweet system indeed!

Mr Froggy 05-11-2013 11:54 AM

Nice system!!

How do you use your speakers with the both system, stereo and multichannel?

Masterlu 05-11-2013 11:58 AM

Very nicely done... I like it! :ok:

Apexorca 05-11-2013 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterlu (Post 490732)
Very nicely done... I like it! :ok:

Thank you!
And maybe the best of all, my wife thinks it┤s ok too.

Mr Froggy:
I use my 2-channel set up in theatre through put on Krell evo 202 when we watch movies and Tv. So I only use the preamp from the surroundreciever for the front speakers. The front speakers takes part in everything. I think it's a common way to integrate a multichannel system in a dedicated 2 channel system.

The center speaker slides forward to sound better. (A box in a box does not sound well...)
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1250.jpg

Masterlu 05-11-2013 01:44 PM

How warm/hot does your amp run?

Apexorca 05-11-2013 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterlu (Post 490784)
How warm/hot does your amp run?

Good question! Not as hot as my former Plinius SA250. But it could probably get your eggs ready to eat.
It runs hot. Therefore the doors are made of fabric that makes the air go through and as you can see at the pictures there are a lot of holes in the back of the furniture to make the amp breath and cool down. No problems so far.

Zoran 10-14-2013 05:12 PM

Apexorca, I am just curious, like a typical newcomer...

Any palpable difference between your former Plinius SA-250 and present Krell Evo-402..?? I listened the Plinius SA-103 paired with some lesser tubed pre, and sound was very very captivating.

BTW, my Krell combo is consisted of Phantom pre (with active crossover onboard) and pair of Evo-400e monos, while Sonus Faber (Guarneri Memento) recently emerged as a very nice (possible) deal, instead of my present B&W 805S...

Thanx.

Apexorca 10-15-2013 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoran (Post 541021)
Apexorca, I am just curious, like a typical newcomer...

Any palpable difference between your former Plinius SA-250 and present Krell Evo-402..?? I listened the Plinius SA-103 paired with some lesser tubed pre, and sound was very very captivating.

Thanx.

Curiosity killed the cat! No, just kidding. It makes you better.

There is a difference indeed. For a start, the price. I always liked the Plinius sound. Compared to Krell 402 , the SA-250 is less focused, less detailed, less controlled. Thought, it makes the music fun, warm bodied and dynamic. The price it's god. Especially if you by a used one. 402 is more expensive.
I would say that the 402 is better in any aspect I can think of. When I bought it I compared it at home in my system agains several amps. Krell402 got the first place comfortable.
When I later tried krell evo202 it was no doubt that Krell needs Krell to really sing, at least in my set up. CAST connection makes it even better.

Plinius pre amp M16 that I used before was a little bit harsh compared to ARC ls27. ARC Ls27 and Plinius SA 250 was a god combination.

SteveK 10-16-2013 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoran (Post 541021)
Apexorca, I am just curious, like a typical newcomer...

Any palpable difference between your former Plinius SA-250 and present Krell Evo-402..?? I listened the Plinius SA-103 paired with some lesser tubed pre, and sound was very very captivating.

BTW, my Krell combo is consisted of Phantom pre (with active crossover onboard) and pair of Evo-400e monos, while Sonus Faber (Guarneri Memento) recently emerged as a very nice (possible) deal, instead of my present B&W 805S...

Thanx.

While there is no such thing as "too much power" in this hobby, aren't 400e truly overpowering the bookshelf speakers, especially if you are bypassing low frequencies with phantom crossover?

I see you are intrigued by the seductively sweet and musical sounds of SA103. I felt the same, but it didn't have that sense of control you get with Krell amps. I even thought about bi-amping with SA103 for mid-high and Krell for lows. But my Strads don't have ability to biamp.

How do you like Phantom>400e? What did you have before as comparison? I am trying to get the same setup to drive SF Strads. So, I am very curious as to your impression. Thanks.

Zoran 10-17-2013 04:26 PM

@Apexorca, that's the kind of answer I expect. Tnx bro.

@Steve: I can easily live with such sort of overkill, like Krell-shaped 400Wpc SS monoblock power per side. After all, this is not that too much, concerning the logarithmic nature of relation between watts and decibels, as we all know... My original intention was not to bring a number of watts, but to bring the best (available) watts.

Phantom replaced the Evo-222, while Evo-400e monos were natural upgrade (a truly great deal was offered by my Krell dealer) over previous pair of Evo-400. Differences sound wise mainly come from preamp, which is far calmer and organic, with top notch bass definition and body (with active crossover off) and great silky highs. But the major upgrade, uncomparable in any aspect with previous sound picture, came with employment of two REL Gibraltar G1 subs, of course with Phantom's active crossover on now... Frankly I am not capable enough to compare the new monoblocks versus old ones, since I changed the whole combo in a very short period of time, so can not distinguish among too many variables. I would guess that differences may be far less prominent comparing to the leap the Phantom brought in my system over "poor" Evo-222 (which was pretty decent pre altogether, but far behind the skyrocket called Krell Phantom).

My prior-Krell experience was gained around lesser amplification rigs, like Primare PRE30/Parasound Halo A-21, Rotel RC/RB-1090 combos and similar or even lesser integrades.

SteveK 10-17-2013 08:33 PM

Thanks. I also have G1 and considering getting a second one. I use the G1 crossover set at 37hz and volume 12. Strads can go very low. In my system, I won't be needing the phantom built in crossover.
I think I may have enough nudge to go for phantom. As you have, I am getting an irresistible deal on 400e and Phantom. :)

Zoran 10-17-2013 09:32 PM

You own the G1 too? Very nice, sort of surprise since we enjoy pretty similar combinations, excluding main speakers (for now).. OK, my present source components are a good light-year behind the amps, however this is damn pricey hobby.

Yeah, I still own both kidneys, but...

SteveK 10-17-2013 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoran (Post 542026)
@Steve: I can easily live with such sort of overkill, like Krell-shaped 400Wpc SS monoblock power per side. After all, this is not that too much, concerning the logarithmic nature of relation between watts and decibels, as we all know... My original intention was not to bring a number of watts, but to bring the best (available) watts.

Totally agree. I had another brand 500 and 600wpc monoblocks until I heard Krell 302e. Different sounds, for sure. Some may prefer one over another. But, not all watts are created equal, and I like Krell watts :D

Zoran 10-18-2013 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveK (Post 542092)
Totally agree. I had another brand 500 and 600wpc monoblocks until I heard Krell 302e. Different sounds, for sure. Some may prefer one over another. But, not all watts are created equal, and I like Krell watts :D

Yeah... Something smells on discarded Mac monos, I guess :D like many cases around... But, to be honest, it is not that difficult to find too a vice-versa cases...

In my experience, "Krell's watts" are not the loudest perhaps (produced decibels per watt ratio depends on many other specs in particular design), but possess some kind of foundation, effortlessness and imposing authority like a few in the business - at least in my experience, I'm stressing it again..

SteveK 10-24-2013 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoran (Post 542026)
But the major upgrade, uncomparable in any aspect with previous sound picture, came with employment of two REL Gibraltar G1 subs, of course with Phantom's active crossover on now...

I am 99% ready to order the Phantom, but have a question. I tried Rel G1 and JL f113. I liked G1 for music.

I also like the fact that G1 connects directly to the amplifier to take on the sound characteristics of the final signal going to the speakers. By using Phantom crossover, you are now connecting the Rels to the preamp. Did you hear a benefit either way? Theoretically, Neutrik Speakon connection would provide better integration with the mains, by getting the "same" signal.
Having built in Phantom crossover is nice but it adds 2.5k.

Another dilemma is black or silver. :) Black would match my system, but my dealer tells me silver has better resale value (just in case). What color do you have?

Thanks.

Zoran 10-28-2013 05:15 PM

Following REL's strong recommendation in favour of high-level inputs' usage, I simply followed that way from the very begining (less than a year).

I run LF signal interconnects from Phantom to additional power amp (tried several, at the moment I have Rotel RB-1090 on that position), which (via Rotel's speaker terminals, of course) feeds both RELs (Neutric Speakon plugs into the REL's high-level input), left and right channel independently.

HF signal part, of course, runs from the Phantom to the Evo 400e blocks and further towards main speakers, regular way.

Options to test in future: 1) active crossover "on", just like it is now, but try REL's low-level connection sockets, with longer RCA interconnects from Phantom directly to RELs (not additional power amp in the chain now) 2) active crossover "off", while both main speaker's and REL's high-input cable ends hooked simultaneously into the Evo-400e speaker terminals.

My Krells are all black.

SteveK 10-28-2013 09:22 PM

Interesting how you have it hooked up. Current setup is using the Rotel stereo amp as a "via" point. I would think that would add additional "flavor" or coloration to the signal going to the subs...

If anything, option 1 would provide for more direct connection (Maybe XLR is better choice for less noise pickup) while fully utilizing Krell crossover. When I get mine (without crossover), option 2 would be my setup. I currently have my single G1 connected to my 302e.

Thanks for sharing.

Zoran 10-29-2013 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveK (Post 545307)
... Current setup is using the Rotel stereo amp as a "via" point. I would think that would add additional "flavor" or coloration to the signal going to the subs...

Steve, please clarify: saying "additional flavor", do you allude to 1) presence of any additional power amp in the chain, or 2) employing apparently lesser amp on such a critical position, instead of, say, another Krell..??

1) As I said, I just follow REL's strong recommendation of high-level inputs as the optimal way to hook up subs, in order to preserve the best timing.

2) I understand, but this is "only bass"... Actually, the critical issue is whether a lesser amp like Rotel, positioned between the Phantom and RELs, will "corrupt" the LF signal sound quality come from Phantom, or will not. My opinion is that the RELs will perform their own task as good as they can, with a relatively minor influence from the power amp that feeds them with the LF signal come from the Phantom. BTW, Rotel RB-1090 is maybe not Krell, but is far from slouch with 380Wpc, 2x1,25 kVA transformers etc, which is more than enough to feed RELs with decent amount of current. I am still far from any idea to consider another Krell on that position, since I am fully satisfied with the present solution, at least for now... Maybe, one beautiful day, but not soon, for sure.

SteveK 10-29-2013 03:32 PM

At the risk of hijacking this thread into Rel, I will try to clarify my question... I thought the beauty of Rel's connection was to have both the sub and the mains to take on same sonic character by hooking up to the last of the signal chain - the amplifier. So, regardless of the "quality" of the amp, connecting to a Rotel would provide Rel with Rotel sound while the mains are taking on the sonics of Krell. In the end, it probably won't matter, but at least on theoretical grounds, it may be different.
For example, if you did the same but used MC2301 instead of Rotel, you would have Rel taking on the bass sonic quality of MC2301 which may be different than what Krell 400e may provide. And that difference may be more pronounced as the Rel crossover is increased to higher level. Just a thought :)
As an audiophile, we do worry about specs a lot - like pico vs femtoseconds of jitter. May not even make an audible difference, but still fun to talk about.

Zoran 10-29-2013 04:23 PM

Understood... The ultimate truth obviously may be seen only one way - hook up another Krell instead of Rotel. One beautiful day...

But right now, I am frankly suspicious to listenability (audibility) treshold of differences between any two good SS amps on critical position we discuss. In fact, this is only bass... which means much smaller range of parameters sound wise in which Krell will likely outperform Rotel...

billse 03-04-2014 10:40 AM

Does any one know how the Krell EVO 202 compares to MBL 6010D

VPN 06-19-2014 07:11 AM

I heard the Krell KCT (which is great) and bought the Krell Phantom (which is better). I never heard the 202.

Looking at the specs, the Phantom has a better power supply than the 202 and a little bit lower harmonic distortion. The Krell Illusion has the same specs as the Phantom and just a new chassis.

iguanito 11-03-2014 12:54 PM

Hi Guys!! My name is daniel and i'm writing from italy, so sorry for my orrible english!!! I hope you will understand the same.
I am a fan of krell electronics; i would like to know if anyone of you have try the new amp illusion II.
Thanks for any informations you will give to me.

kalombo 01-21-2015 02:00 PM

Hello,

My current problem is that i first purchased the KRELL TAS and the KRELL HTS 7.1 for home theatre use. Then i purchased some good speakers, the Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution, and decided to bridge the Krell TAS to 2x400W at 8ohms and use the HTS 7.1 in preamp mode to listen to music. Later on, i purchased the Krell Evo 505 cd player. But now, since the HTS 7.1 is a processor and not a stereo preamp, and the evo 202 being one of the best stereo preamp out there, i was wondering how big the difference would be if i replaced the HTS 7.1 with the EVO 202 in my system...
I would really appreciate to see your point of view on that.

Thank you!

Omerta 01-21-2015 04:54 PM

I don't believe the hts has a 2ch pass through. The 202 should except the cast connections from the 505 and will not alter the signal while the hts will process it again. If that is the case the 202 should be a major step up.


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