Bass Deluxe +++
 

This afternoon, I went to audition JL subs for the first time.
They are quite hard to get in Europe so far, and with all the enthusiasm here on AA, I wanted to know whether JL Audio would be something for a possible future upgrade.
So I did some research and found a dealer in Antwerp where I could hear them.
It is only since 2009 they are available in Belgium.
This dealer used to be a REL-fan, but when he heard the JL Audio's a couple of years ago, there was no way back. Since 2009, he sold 16 pairs of Fathoms, mostly F112's and F113's, which is quite an achievement in this Lilliputian country.
The set-up in Antwerp: Focal Utopia Maestro's, Esoteric PO-5 transport, Lyngdorf TDAI-2200 amp, a top turntable (forgot the brand...), Cabling from Synergistic Research.
Subs: 6 F113's, yes six!!!.
Two stacks of 3.
3 for the left and 3 for the right channel.
He said he started with 2, and he gradually is building up.
I didn't find the rest of the set-up very extraordinary.
But in the lower octaves, man, this was impressive.
The bass was really tight and fast, and had an astonishing natural ease.
It was not overpowering at all, it was just... right.
If you calculate, there was a potential of 15000 Watts of bass in that room...
The dealer told me the next time at the Brussels Hifi Show, he plans to play organ music with 8 F113's. I think this should warn any possible competitor :D
After this afternoon, a pair of F113's is on top of my list as possible new subs.

bart, I could not be happier with my pair of F113's. Go for it! :)

I am looking at F113s or F212(s)...

Is it OK to stack a pair of F113s? How does this compare to a single F212 or pair of F212s? Given my room's space constraints & recommendations that a pair is always better than a single, I am considering the options available. I have always ran my sub from the rear, & have had no issue dialing in the phase. Given that these products take room equalization readings, I gather they are easier & much more forgiving to setup for various room placements.

There should be no problem stacking a pair of F113's. JL's do have equalisation, but it is only a single band. As you saw at my place yesterday, I am using a DEQX to control the subs - I have found this works pretty well.

Randy, I'll start saving! Thanks!

The set-up yesterday consisted of 2 stacks of 3 F113's.
It sounded great to me.
And when somebody from JL Audio came to visit the hi-fi shop last year, he approved completely with this set-up.

MyPal, co-locating the subs (stacking) will give you better output, but will not smooth out the frequency response like two separately subs would do. The issue is the effect of standing waves upon perceived bass.

It is counter-intuitive, but the greater the amount of bass energy in a small room the less bass is perceived in certain spots in the room. Other spots may be dominated by a one note "boom" as the standing waves accumulate in certain spots. Adding more bass energy from the same location just makes it worse.

The reason that separate locations work to smooth out the response (yielding the perception of less boom and paradoxically stronger bass) is because each location creates a different pattern of standing waves. That combined with double the surface area of drivers allows less energy to create the same amount of perceived bass. because the standing wave patterns of the two locations are different, there is less build-up and cancellation, so less boom and "suck out."

In short, extra drivers may go to physical extension, but differing locations goes to perceived extension. :)

Thanks Randy,

The issue of standing waves did come to mind & your post regarding extension & positioning raises further considerations in relation to interference & resonance. Without the subs I have virtually eliminated standing wave issues & have currently have fabulous bass frequency response in the room. But of course it's that last pressurized 15Hz or so that remains amiss which only good subs can offer.

As the subs have to be positioned at the rear of the room, I am also reluctant to face them directly towards my fronts. I can place them apart say 7ft (2.1m) behind leather sofas with say a 530mm (1/8 octave @80Hz) clearance from the front face & less from the room corners which have bass traps. Their facing direction would also be perpendicular to each other.

Given that the sofa obstruction has a substantial absorbent coefficient, that they will be in the rear corners, perhaps with an additional acoustic panel or bass trap placed behind each, how do you think they would perform in such an arrangement?

Steve

Steve, just so I understand, you are not going to face them at each other, right?

Correct. One will be pointed towards the front, the other will be pointed at 45 degrees. Both will have sofas in front of them approx 55cm away. The room is approx 21m2 (4.2x5x3) but opens up into a larger living area. Effectively the ceiling span of the total area is 36m2. Ceiling height is 3m.

All walls are well insulated with furnishing & acoustic panels, bass traps in rear corners. I plan to acoustically panel the ceiling as well & have ordered 16x 600x600 panels for this.