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-   -   Need a CR-1? (https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=45776)

mike175gr 05-08-2019 12:58 PM

Need a CR-1?
 
I am looking at potentially purchasing a single Fathom f112v2 and am curious about integrating it into my system. I have an extra set of outputs out of any Cary SLP-05 and was going to simply connect it that way, but is a CR-1 necessary?

crwilli 05-09-2019 01:14 PM

Need a CR-1?
 
Simple answer is “No”. A crossover is not needed and many here do not use them in top, top line systems. Generally, when they do not, they are setting their crossovers below 50Hz even below 40Hz such that the sub only enters the picture at the lowest frequencies. They are also lucky to not have to deal with bass issues in their well sorted out rooms.

In cases such as mine where my main speakers develop a big ‘suck-out’ around 90Hz. No amount of available movement of their positions or of my listening position was able to eliminate it.

My solution was to buy a CR-1 and cross my JL Audio Fathom F113v2 at 95 Hz for high and low pass. Locate the Fathom using REW’s room simulator, fine tune its location with my ears and then adjust the phase of my Fathom, Run DARO and smile like crazy.

I achieved flat bass from 18 Hz to 300Hz, removed the low end load on my Amplifiers and created the best staging and frequency integration I have ever had.

W9TR 05-09-2019 03:55 PM

Mike - If you are just trying to add a bit of low end extension, then you can run your mains full bandwidth and just add in the sub to take care of the very lowest ranges. T
I would try it first without a crossover and if you can dial it in you're good. If you feel the need to remove the bass from your mains you can add a crossover at a later date.

jameslrock 05-09-2019 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crwilli (Post 964323)
Simple answer is “No”. A crossover is not needed and many here do not use them in top, top line systems. Generally, when they do not, they are setting their crossovers below 50Hz even below 40Hz such that the sub only enters the picture at the lowest frequencies. They are also lucky to not have to deal with bass issues in their well sorted out rooms.

In cases such as mine where my main speakers develop a big ‘suck-out’ around 90Hz. No amount of available movement of their positions or of my listening position was able to eliminate it.

My solution was to buy a CR-1 and cross my JL Audio Fathom F113v2 at 95 Hz for high and low pass. Locate the Fathom using REW’s room simulator, fine tune its location with my ears and then adjust the phase of my Fathom, Run DARO and smile like crazy.

I achieved flat bass from 18 Hz to 300Hz, removed the low end load on my Amplifiers and created the best staging and frequency integration I have ever had.

True

mike175gr 05-10-2019 11:45 AM

Thank you all very much for your input. I really appreciate it. I am now trying to decide between the f112v2 or the f113v2. I do want it to blend seamlessly once I am finished. I used to have a REL B1 sub with my Vienna Acoustic Mahler speakers and enjoyed it very much. My newer system in in a larger room that is on the second level and opens up via a balcony to a larger great room with 26' ceiling. I will be mostly listening to music, but also movies as well.

I had read that the f112v2 is a better choice for music as opposed to the f113v2. Is that accurate?

IM3CPO 05-10-2019 01:48 PM

I personally would not agree with the f112 being the better choice for music vs the f113. The size sub should be mostly dictated by the size of the room, so I would only employ the 12" if the room was not big enough to support the 13.5". In your application, I am not sure the f112 would give you the results you are looking for.

mike175gr 05-10-2019 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IM3CPO (Post 964416)
I personally would not agree with the f112 being the better choice for music vs the f113. The size sub should be mostly dictated by the size of the room, so I would only employ the 12" if the room was not big enough to support the 13.5". In your application, I am not sure the f112 would give you the results you are looking for.

Thank you, that is the input I am looking for. I am then struggling between the B&W DB1D (two 12" drivers) 2,000 watts vs the JL Audio F113v2 (one 13.5" driver) 3,000 watts.

I want to obviously have it blend as seamlessly as possible with my B&W 802D3 mains. There are pros and cons with each units, and I am having a tough time deciding.

W9TR 05-10-2019 04:16 PM

JL Audio are subwoofer experts. B&W are not. Lots of very satisfied customers for each.

The JL specifies displacement and B&W does not. Displacement is the key spec for how low and loud the sub will go.

crwilli 05-10-2019 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IM3CPO (Post 964416)
I personally would not agree with the f112 being the better choice for music vs the f113. The size sub should be mostly dictated by the size of the room, so I would only employ the 12" if the room was not big enough to support the 13.5". In your application, I am not sure the f112 would give you the results you are looking for.



Yes! What he said.

Wayne 05-20-2019 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike175gr (Post 964209)
I am looking at potentially purchasing a single Fathom f112v2 and am curious about integrating it into my system. I have an extra set of outputs out of any Cary SLP-05 and was going to simply connect it that way, but is a CR-1 necessary?

I strongly disagree with those recommending to run your main speakers full range without a crossover. The issue is that its very difficult if not impossible to get the phase to match at every frequency where the main speakers and and sub overlap without a crossover. No you don't need a CR-1 but you do need a crossover if you hope to get a flattish overall frequency response.

I used an Ashley crossover before upgrading to a Cr-1 and it worked fine.


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