Help! Replace C2500 with C2600 or C2700?
 

Hey guys, I have been a member of this site since 2012 and this is my first post. So, our theater/media room has a sweet rack full of Mac gear (Pic attached for everyone's enjoyment!). I've been an "audiophile" since college when I purchased my first true set of nice speakers the B&W CDM7SE's. A few months later, I bought my first Mac amp, the MC162. Ever since then (1999), I have bought and sold all kinds of Mac equipment. Well, when we built our house in 2016, I upgraded everything I had and put in:

MX122
C2500
MC452 -B&W 802 D3's
MC207- B&W HTM1 D3, SCMS, 805 S, pair of Cinema 7
MC205 - pair of Cinema 7 in theater an our living room


Oppo 205
MCD301
Bluesound Node (comes this week...I am just now getting into streaming)
Apple TV4k

We had our first child in 2015 and our 2nd in 2017, so my upgrade bug was squashed and nothing has changed since besides adding Roku and then Apple TV. Well, for whatever reason, the bug is back and I am looking at making small changes all the way to wholesale changes. The first thing I have decided to move out is the C2500. My question is how much of an improvement is the 2600 and 2700 compared to the 2500? I have a soft deal made for the C2700, but it's obviously a lot of money. Is going with it the best move for SQ improvement or should I look at doing a normal tube pre and and outboard DAC so it doesn't age as poorly?

2nd part of this....I think I am going to get rid of the 122 and either go to the Anthem AVM 70 or even an AVR that has preouts. Everything that I do 2 channel music wise goes through the 2500, i cant help but think that using the MX122 for watching movies and DirecTV is overkill. Am i wrong on that?

I a sorry for the long post, but I have been out of the game for 6 years and feel lost!

https://i.imgur.com/Bqh9C9M.jpeg

Ever43… Welcome to AA! :wave:

Ever 43-

While not a direct answer to your question, perhaps this can "shed some light" in your quest.

I traded my 2500 for a C1100 a few years back during one of Mc's Trade Up offers. Listening to the two pre-amps side by side there was a pretty sizable difference.

The DAC in the 2500 had some teething pains with USB lock-up that were pretty much taken care of with firmware updates. USB can be finicky in general. The DAC in the 2600 and 2700 are improved spec-wise with the 2700 being upgradeable. Other than that, I am not sure how much difference there is between the three pre-amps and more importantly how noticeable it is. The best in your case would be to bring your preamp to your dealer and listen side by side with the 2700. As you mentioned, you can always go with a stand alone DAC.

Enjoy the Sounds,

John

Welcome to AA!
I think going from a 2500 to a 2600 or 2700 would be a sideways move apart from
perhaps the the DAC’s. Maybe somebody here who has actually done it can weigh in, becaus this is speculation on my part.

Is the MX 122 overkill? I don’t think so. I still use my MX 151 and let the Oppo 205 decode all the new audio formats. If you wanted to upgrade because of 4k support and Dolby Atmos that would be a different discussion. But if you are happy with 5.1 / 7.1 then you could save the depreciation on the MX 122 and just keep it for awhile longer.

I moved from a C 2300 to the C 1100 and the improvement was not subtle. That would also be my recommendation. You’d have to include an outboard DAC in the mix but there are so many options out there that would be a step above the internal DAC in a C 2700 that you’d have a hard time choosing, unless you opted for the D 1100, which is a great DAC and you’d have an all Mac stack.

Welcome aboard, I do recall posts of people upgrading from the C2500 to either the 26 or 2700, you may want to do a search. Of course what one person hears, you may not and all that. If I were to swap out my C2300 for something today I would certainly go with the C2700. As mentioned the DAC is upgradeable but it supports up to DSD512 today so I'm not sure how much more digital tech will be pushed beyond that. I have a couple newer DACs and honestly to me there isn't a huge delta between them and the DAC in my MCD500 that is much longer in the tooth.

As for the MX122, I would agree with you. I'm purely a 2-channel guy but I would definitely pick up something like a Marantz AV receiver if I was going to add multi channel.

We like to spend other peoples' money, so in your shoes I would sell/trade the C2500 and MX122 and get a C2700 and whatever AVR floats your boat. Overkill is commonplace here, so if you can stretch the funds, maybe keep the MX122 and just swap the C2500 for the C2700 and keep the all Mc stack. With either choice and the rest of your current gear the upgrade bug should be squashed for quite some time.

ETA: I knew someone would toss the C1100 into the mix :)

Beautiful system! I was in approximately your shoes a few years ago. I opted for a C22 preamp with a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC. This gave me better sound quality and more upgrade options at approximately the same price as the C2500 (or maybe it was the C2600?). I believe the C22 and C2700 share architecture.

As already noted, there are a huge number of outboard DACs to choose from. If you Google Yggdrasil, I think you'll see it is a very safe bet.

Good luck!

The answer to your question is 'definitely'!

I actually did the transition from the C2500 to the C2700 and in the bargain you will obtain greater transparency, a lower noise floor, improved natural detail, an improved upper midrange, a better phono preamp, an improved headphone output (HXD), and a better DAC in the form of the upgradable DA2 all in one superb package. McIntosh made truly major changes in the internal architecture when they went from the C2500 to the C2600, which moved forward into the C2700. If later on you opt to forgo a (hypothetical) DA3, an external DAC of your choosing can always be connected. The C2700 is the Swiss Army knife of preamps and one of the true bargains in high end audio. Frankly, if you can afford it, the decision to upgrade is a "lay down".

Happy listening.

Bob
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Sources: Clearaudio Jubilee MC/Clearaudio Innovation Wood TT w/Universal Arm 9” and Professional Power 24V; MCT500 CD/SACD transport; OPPO 205; NAD C446 Internet Tuner; Nakamichi 670ZX cassette deck. Electronics: MacIntosh C2700 preamp w/DA2 and MC462 power amp. Speakers: Wilson Yvettes with Acoustic Diodes Headphones: MacIntosh MHP 1000 Interconnects: Transparent SBL2 XLR GEN 6 balanced and SSC8 GEN 6 speaker cables; MCT - MCT500 -> C2700.Power cords: Transparent (on preamp, power amp and transport). Surge protected. Record and CD maintenance : Clearaudio Double Matrix Professional Sonic RCM; L’Art du Son CD treatment.

Everybody has good advice but I agree with Bob. It's fun to have two excellent DAC's so add an external DAC later on and use the internal DAC for backup DAC.

Best,

Charles

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Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: Wilson Active XO Stereo Electronic Crossover; 3 AS125 custom made McIntosh amps stands
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport. Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic. WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection. New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes. Thor is now off my floor. MC3500MKII mono block amps (2) and two custom granite slabs
Amps: McIntosh MC3500MKII mono blocks (2), McIntosh MC1.25KW’s (3). All amps set on floor on custom made granite slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC); custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

My suggestion would be to find a close-out deal on a C1100. I recently replaced my C2300 with a C1100. A noticeable improvement over an already fine tube preamp.

Bias here of course, but I would not get rid of the MX122 (you already have it and a complete Mac rack less the Oppo) and upgrade to the C2700. You can always add an external DAC later as others point out, and/or have the future flexibility to change the onboard DAC when a new one is released. Remember too that currently anything new on the Mac end will be a HUGE lead time from the factory!