Almost any speaker. :D :yes: There are just so many speakers on the market, and yes, there are some ideally just suited for high power solid state, to make them sing.

-M

Hey Matt how about a small speaker that is 86 dB(2.83v/m) and 4 ohms? Thoughts?

Matt, what about a speaker that is 92db at 4 ohms?
For Shindo amps, is efficiency more important or speaker load?

Tommy first you need to know what that 92 dB really means. Is it 1w/1m or 2.83v/m? If it is the latter, it would mean that the speaker is actually 89db sensitive at it's nominal impedance.

Thanks Bill. I'm talking about 92db 1w/1m at 4 ohm, like the Stradivari Homage.

Sad to say that is a mistake on the Sumiko site. Strad is actually 92dB w/2.84v at 4 ohms as per the Sonus site.

http://www.sonusfaber.com/en/databan...ari_homage.pdf

Oh oh! The Ongaku has got its work cut out! :scratch2:

OK :D Nevermind Matt. Just answer Bill's (Metaphacts) question.

By the way, Kondo has just come out with a new Field Coil Speaker. It really does sound wonderful through the Ongaku and could definitely be a contender to those looking for a Shindo Partner.

Its the maple one on the left next to the Avantagarde Uno G2.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...b360dac33f.jpg

Beautiful. Tweeter looks like a "relative" of Acapella ION ........:D

Now Bro, the dream becomes a full Kondo system for you? :thumbsup: You can well afford. Buy-Buy-Buy! :yes:

I normally don't like my speakers to be the same brand as the rest and the Westminsters have occupied my dreams for a good many years but this Kondo speaker made me take notice.

howie

Howie, looks interesting. What are the specs on them?

Those certainly look nice, I'd be interested in specs too. If there's one thing about the Shindo line I don't like aesthetically it's the speakers. That said I have only seen them in photos and not in person so who knows, maybe I'll be surprised if (when) I get a chance to hear/see them.

So who's the next one that's going to buy a set of speakers (Howie...wink wink)? I can feel the energy, someone's gonna do it :)

Me, too.

Looks too much like retro American furniture from the 40s and 50s...yeesh.

Hi Joe,

Yep, the Super 8's, for example, are very stable 8Ω so are easy on amps like the Cortese, especially in most medium sized listening rooms.

Since this is a Japanese Exotica thread, I won't delve too much on products made in USA :D but the DeVore Orangutan O/96 is something to also consider, due to it's high efficiency. They are a stand mounted, wider baffle speaker and a new series in his lineup. The 10" paper woofer presents music in a palpable, effortless manner. :music:

Additionally, they don't require corner room placement.

Series of Dreams « pitch perfect audio

Sincerely,
Matt

All i remember is 93db :yes:

Thanks Matt. I have wanted to hear the Orangutan, but have not had a chance yet.

Joe

No worries Tommy. I will have the definitive answer late next week. :D

Guarneri Evolution with Shindo?? Do post pictures!

Excellent suggestion.

Now I ' m truly lost !

I read again all the Stereophiles articles about Shindo gear yesterday and I' m really craving to buy the CCQ and at the same time, I cannot ignore what Matt told me and all the messages I received telling me that this was a crazy project.
Opposite to many, I like the idea of units built by hand by a company of 6 persons, with passion and love and a mind dedicated to music.
I like the idea of using old components.
I'm impressed by all the comments I read on the web both by owners and pro reviewers ( even if the last are pretty rare ) and those comments are very different from the usual ones you read about most products.
I looked at the discussion about the impedance of the EB1i and it does not seem to me that my speakers have the type of impedance that Shindo amps would love....:scratch2:
Basically, I have 3 choices :
- follow my instinct and order them. This is based on the love I had for the Verdier 845 class A Set amps. They managed the EB1i pretty good in the bass and the treble and were only 20 W in class A. So how come the Shindo CCQ could not do the job ? As I mentioned already, the 2301's will stay anyway so the Shindo won't have to play loud. Still, all amps are different. The Shindo could have more trouble than the Verdier !
- look elsewhere for an other flavor. At 15700 euros, there are many other amps I can consider to get an other flavor of sound. The first to come to mind is the Burmester 911 MK3 which retails in Europe for 15900 euros taxes included. This is not a low power option I know, but my goal is first of all "an other flavor" and not necessarily "lower power". All the things I read on this amp are just stunning and the flavor seems to be rather different than the typical Mc sound which I adore should I mention. But I could also consider second hand Lamm monoblocks....
- buy a Shindo preamp. But here, all my system falls down in an illogical path.
No more passthru for HT. No remote ! Sorry if I'm old fashionned here guys but I live in a real world with kids and wife than can enter the room anytime to talk to me....Moreover, I just bought a high end phono stage with balanced outputs.
I would have to sell it if the Shindo pre is equivalent for the phono section ( but seriously, even with the great things I read about them, I have serious doubts that the Shindo phono stage could be as good as the REF 2....).
So this is actually the last thing I would do.
- the option my wife would love to hear : stay exactly where I am since I love the sound of my system. I had a wonderful listening session yesterday night and I thought "why the hell do you want to change anything to this sound ? You have a killer system ! The 2301's will put down on their knees many many amps on the market ! ". And once really tired of my system, sell it all and buy a pair of Canterburys with a full Shindo set up !
Finally this last option seems to be the most logical to me.
In the meantime, I really want to hear the REF5 in my system and compare it to the C1000. This could also be an easy switch.

What do you think my friends ?
Please speak with honesty but respect towards people who have some gear that you may dislike. I don't want to start any polemic debate here.
Cheers,

Jerome, there has been a lot of excitement here lately about Shindo, and while I am sure it is very fine gear, we have seen prior waves of excitement come and go for other gear. For your situation, a low power SET amp does not make much sense for the reasons you have already stated. Yes, the pull of the Shindo reviews and the passion of our colleagues here appeal to the romantic in each of us, but does it make sense to design a system at cross-purposes with itself? If you were saying "I want a second system in a different flavor and I have the means" I would say go for Shindo. But you are not saying that at all. You are saying you want to keep most of what you have and just try a different amp. In that case, I think the Burmester would be a brilliant choice. It's reviews are strong. It's solid state character will be different than the MC2301 tubes. Resale would be a snap if you dislike it or it turns out to be merely redundant. Think of it - summers with Burmester and winters with McIntosh. :D

Give it a try and see what you think. As Randy said, you won't lose much if you don't like it and you will have gained valuable experience. To me that's the most important part of this hobby, some solid hands on experience.

I spent a fair amount of time with the SET and low power thing myself. Not my cup of tea, but I had the experience and know what it can do now. Enjoy!

Jerome, Jeff gave you some good advice, and if I could offer some more, don't worry about what others think, do what makes you happiest.

If it were me, and the choice was the Shindo amp or the Burmester...well, it'd have to be Burmester. You'd get an incredibly musical amp (maybe not musical in the exact same sense as Shindo, but extremely musical nontheless. And, whose to say, with any electronic reproduction of recorded music, which flavor of musicality is the right one or the best one?), but also one with incredible power, grip, and control.

I agree 100% ......its the only way you will really find out......now in the meantime......about those 2301's?:) :D

Jerome,

As one medical professional to another, life is full of trials and tribulations, stresses. Imho, if you have the budget for it, go ahead and try it. Life is too short for regrets.

In fact I have the same headache as you. An Ongaku has no balanced inputs which makes it a pain the arse but then again, that is what the designer wanted. It means locating everything nearby and creates an enormous headache as far as connections and room arrangement and this in a place I have just lived for two months.

You want to add in a pair of Westminsters and you have triple the headache. So much that I have spent the afternoon rearranging furniture to see what can be done whilst preserving a living room look which is also important to me (in fact more so than to my wife!).

I am going to demo the Ongaku next week at home hopefully so we'll see.

I'm not trying to get you to spend your money but let's say they turn out to be everything you need? WOW! I would like be a fly on your wall!

Take a risk. If it doesn't work too well you have many options available including making a decision to build a system around it. You can bring it round to all your friends and try it with their speakers. what fun!

You make me want to get a pair and do the same! :music:

howie

I know buying gear is always fun but if you haven't done so I would look at treating your room....I don't mean just throwing up a few panels, consult with someone and take some measurements and design something that has a high WAF.....a crappy sounding room always a crappy sounding room, doesn't matter what gear you throw at it.....just my two cents worth.

Jeff,
You're absolutely right.
My room is far from having a wonderful acoustic and would benefit from treatments for sure but :
- people who heard my system without the Room Perfect in action found it very good
- Room Perfect made a huge improvement
- I 'm tweaking the position of the speakers since nearly 2 years now and I can tell now that I'm not far at all from the perfect balance. Bill advices helped me a lot for that.
- Treatments with high WAF are no so easy to find.
I know that the room does not sound at its best yet, but still, the system is sounding extremely good for my ears : better than most of the demos I get in shows or dealers rooms ! I will see what the other great Jeff (tonepub) says about it when he will be here in Paris, but personnaly I'm fully satisfied with the sound I get now.
The only thing is : I'm having a wonderful chocolate ice cream. That is the best chocolate I ever tasted. But sometimes, I would just like a vanilla ice cream !

Jerome...I have 3 different avenues of advice:

#1: Stay away from reading AA for the next 2-4 weeks, or if you can't do that, just make sure to not read anySHindo-related threads, or anything that Serge, Alberto, Jayson (adhesiv), and Scott (sibelius) post because there is likely something Shindo-related there :D. After this "cool down period," (this is like taking a cold shower...) you can see if you still have the "hots" for Shindo (somehow I don't think you are going to do this and if you do it's not going to work :laughin:)
#2: As Howie says, if you are not worried about the financial hit, buy the CCQ and if it does not match up well with the EB1is, then you can resell it (hopefully for a minimal loss). As others have said, the odds are likley it will not be a great match (not in terms of being able to drive the EB1is to healthy SPLs but in terms of tonal balance, which is the issue you had with the Verdier in the midrange with female vocals) but you will never know until you try it.
#3: Audition the Burmester and Ref 5 in your system (both should be locally available for auditions I assume) and decide which one gives you more of a different flavor in your system. My sense is you will get more of a shift with the Burmester (as compared to your 2301s), vs. the difference between the C1000P and the Ref 5. Also, Randy's suggestion of using the Burmerster in the summer and the MC2301s in the winter, I thought was a great idea.

I know there is not much new here in terms of suggestions but that's the way I see it. I really do thing if you want to go Shindo, it makes more sense to do a complete system change by starting with new speakers and then building the Shindo chain for it.

Good luck.

A Shindo amp on its own is probably not the way to go. I always recommend that prospective owners start out with a Shindo preamp or preferably a preamp/amp combo. IMO, that's where much of the Shindo magic is.

Cyril, Howie, Michael, Jeff x2, Randy, Scott : many good sense there !
Thanks a lot !
Keep them coming guys !
On a side note, my room is air conditioned so no matter the season and if tubes or SS I use inside, the temperature remains normal :D !

Jerome...I also think there may be an impedance mismatch between the Ref 5 and the MC2301s which have an input impedance of 20Kohms (SE)/30Kohms (Balanced), and while the Ref 5 says it recommends a minimum of 20Kohm load (which the MC2301s provide), it usually likes to see a much higher impedance (lower load). If you look at all of ARC's amps, they all have input impedances > 100Kohms. I am not saying there will definitely be an issue but there may be one. Again, you can only try and see what you think. A good comparison if you bring the Ref 5 for an audition will be to compare the tonal balance when it is hooked up to the MC2301s vs. hooking it up to your ARC 100.2. I know the MC2301s are much better than the ARC on a lot of things, but compare the tonal balance characteristics (i.e., if any portion of the frequency band is emphasized or recessed), in one vs. the other. The ARC 100.2 has an input impedance of 150Kohms (single ended) and 300Kohms (balanced).

I remember Bob (Vintage_Tube) tried a Ref 3 with his MC2301s and did not like the combo and compared it to the C500 and found the combo with the MC2301s to be superior.

Cyril,
Good advice !
And good memory too ! I did not mention my 100.2 often and now that I deleted all the gear of my sig, I'm really impressed.
Hats Down Sir :tresbon: !

Jerome, I think you should stay tuned in next couple of weeks! You don't want to miss the next episode of "Serge gets his 96dB Canterbury and the Shindo Masseto preamp" on our "As the world turns with the Balding and not so beautiful restless audiophiles while seeking the Guiding light ignoring All their children and trying to stay out of the General Hospital" soap opera. :D

Jerome...if you stick around and watch Serge's Shindo spectacular, then just go to your wife and tell her there will be no vacations for the next 2 years, and she will not be able to buy any clothes for herself or the kids for the next 5 years :D :laughin:

Serge, Cyril : very funny guys ! :lmao:
I knew that I should have stayed away from AA !

Serge,
I will wait for your Petrus review :D and skip the Masseto !

Agreed. Start with pre-
:yes:

Alright who is stepping up to the plate to buy the Shindo Giscours preamp on audiogon? It's got Jerome's name all over it.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/m...ur1/hero10.jpg
I NEED YOU JEROME AS MUCH AS YOU NEED ME

Not crazy - very much understood, it has an allure and cannot be compared with other gear. It's very unique and sonically strikes a chord within many people.

Those who have not heard it like to lump it within the context of other equipment, or what they have heard other tube gear sound like. They assume Shindo will be more or less the same. It's not.

But, like I mentioned earlier, starting with a preamp is really the way to go.

Oh, btw, to enjoy HT sources, your processor would connect through the Shindo AUX input and you raise volume control to 12~ noon(exact position will be determined with your HT setup sound generator profiles.) Currently, you probably press a bypass button, compared to switching to an AUX input and turning the knob to twelve noon, if you used Shindo. Not quite as elegant as to what you are used to, but for many of my customers works seamlessly.

Remote, well, you could always hit 'pause' on the cd player if you needed to 'mute' the system quickly. :D

Yes, actually, there are quite a bit of excellent reviews - some listed on the tone imports website, for your perusal, when you have time.

Tone Imports Product Reviews

It's not a speaker I typically see paired with tube electronics too often, so I'm just a bit cautious, that's all. Knowing what I know about Shindo there is a large chance the CCQ's will drive the hell out of your speakers and you will love them. All Shindo amps gobs of drive and heft - on the appropriate speaker.. This isn't unique to Shindo amps- all tube gear should be matched well to the speaker. All to often I see guys running 8wpc amps on Harbeth :nono: and they wonder why their system is lacking in dynamics! :yes:

I definitely know the Shindo won't have more trouble, in that comparison.

:scratch2::scratch2:

I'm sure the AR preamp you own is very good, indeed. I do like their products! :yes: Yes, for some, the feature set of the AR will completely negate any possibility of considering a Shindo preamp. Most people, though, never use half of the bells and whistles most components have now a days.

But, respectfully, they are so very different, and can't be compared apples to apples. But, I would like you to hear one at some point - A Shindo pre, that is. For example, the Monbrison preamp has been in production since 1996. The Giscours around 1986!~. The Evolutionary changes aside, there are few companies that can say that about one of their flagship products. It's a highly evolved design - not changed drastically every 12 months like other companies, to maintain market share.

Proof is in the listening.

I love the fact you desire Shindo and want to appreciate some of this designs. 2 x :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

As they say, 'the shortest answer is doing'.

Perhaps you need to try it and see how it goes - but my advice above still stands regarding the preamp.

Sincerely,

-Matt