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-   -   JL Audio Fathom f113 repair (https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=43298)

jdandy 08-06-2018 11:19 AM

UPDATE:

It's been one month today since the successful repair of my JL Audio Fathom f113 subwoofer. I have played music in the living room everyday and the subwoofer is working flawlessly. I have the Fathom set for Auto turn-on when a music signal is sensed at the inputs, exactly the way I used it for nine years before the capacitor failure. All is well and hopefully I will not have any other issues for years to come. Long live my JL Audio subwoofer.

Mack 08-06-2018 09:14 PM

:thumbsup:

deafbykhorns 08-13-2018 09:26 PM

Nice job Dan
What ESR meter did you purchase? I have an old Heathkit Cap tester that runs them under load and voltage selectable from 2-600v, great for checking coupling caps. Sometimes its difficult to test mylars. Curious if yours will test Mylar
Sometimes it almost mandatory to have a good cap to compare.

jdandy 08-13-2018 10:20 PM

John.......I use the Signstek MESR-100 capacitor meter.

https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-MESR...70_&dpSrc=srch

r0b 01-06-2019 01:28 AM

Dan, thanks for all the details and pics! My F112 (v1) died about a week ago, leading me to search online. I found posts from others complaining about similar issues. However only your post had sufficient info for me to attempt this on my own.

I also had trouble removing the amp, but the M6 machine screws did the trick! I only needed one and the amp came out enough for me to do the rest.

Once the amp was on my workbench, I removed the hex bolts holding the PCB and the power transistors, but the PCB was still stuck. Turns out there is some black mushy material (silicon caulking?) on the large capacitors that hold it to the metal. Slicing it near the metal freed it.

I did not have an ESR device, so I ended up changing both caps that you referenced from Mouser. I double checked my work and put everything back together including the cable ties that hold the wires in place.

I plugged the amp back in and attached a few screws to hold it in place. I plugged in the power cable and it turned back on! My amp was finally on again! Big sigh of relief.

At this point, I heard some ground noise I never heard before. I don’t know why, but figured maybe something else had also gone wrong. Since the hum was mild, I figured it should be fine from in my listening chair. I unplugged power, finished securing all the screws, then moved the sub back into its place. I plugged in the source RCAs and the power cable. The ground hum was now gone... no idea about this one.

I played a few tracks and all was well!

Oddly, I became somewhat accustomed to listening without the sub, and realized I had its level higher than necessary. I adjusted it slightly down and now the bass transitions smoothly from my Olympica III’s to the sub bass of the F112.

Very happy this repair went so smoothly. Thanks again Dan!

r0b 01-06-2019 02:05 AM

Thanks Ivan for making this a sticky thread!

The F113 repairs Dan specified worked exactly the same for my F112.

I should also add that my first thought when the sub died was not how to repair it... but what to upgrade to! :lmao:

jdandy 01-06-2019 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0b (Post 948006)
Dan, thanks for all the details and pics! My F112 (v1) died about a week ago, leading me to search online. I found posts from others complaining about similar issues. However only your post had sufficient info for me to attempt this on my own.

I also had trouble removing the amp, but the M6 machine screws did the trick! I only needed one and the amp came out enough for me to do the rest.

Once the amp was on my workbench, I removed the hex bolts holding the PCB and the power transistors, but the PCB was still stuck. Turns out there is some black mushy material (silicon caulking?) on the large capacitors that hold it to the metal. Slicing it near the metal freed it.

I did not have an ESR device, so I ended up changing both caps that you referenced from Mouser. I double checked my work and put everything back together including the cable ties that hold the wires in place.

I plugged the amp back in and attached a few screws to hold it in place. I plugged in the power cable and it turned back on! My amp was finally on again! Big sigh of relief.

At this point, I heard some ground noise I never heard before. I don’t know why, but figured maybe something else had also gone wrong. Since the hum was mild, I figured it should be fine from in my listening chair. I unplugged power, finished securing all the screws, then moved the sub back into its place. I plugged in the source RCAs and the power cable. The ground hum was now gone... no idea about this one.

I played a few tracks and all was well!

Oddly, I became somewhat accustomed to listening without the sub, and realized I had its level higher than necessary. I adjusted it slightly down and now the bass transitions smoothly from my Olympica III’s to the sub bass of the F112.

Very happy this repair went so smoothly. Thanks again Dan!

r0b.......You are quite welcome. I am happy to know my thread and the repair I outlined served to get you back up and running. I have to commend you on your effort. Digging into the back side of a JL Audio f112/f113 can be daunting. You saved yourself about $500.00 in repair and shipping cost, not to mention wrestling that monster of a sub back into its shipping box and getting it shipped. Congratulations on your successful repair. . :applause:

Vintage Pete 01-06-2019 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 921997)
Gentlemen.......I would not let this issue dampen your enthusiasm for JL Audio subwoofers. They represent some of the best subs available today from any manufacturer. My Fathom f113 gave me 9 years of daily service without an issue before this problem popped up. If the new capacitors bring it back to life I will most likely get another decade or more of service from it without issue. It is not worth the stress worrying about a failure that hasn't happened yet.

You know how it is with news, only the bad stuff makes it to print. If one considers just how many JL Audio subwoofers have been sold and are still in service without issues, the small number we hear about, mine included, represent a very small percentage of the total JL Audio subwoofers in use. No reason to fret.

Worry is debt paid in advance for something that has not happened yet. It is a waste of time and energy. Crank it up guys. Enjoy your music.

I wholeheartedly agree with Dan.....I too dread the day one of my JL subs need service, but chances are it won't be that big a deal to fix. So often, the culprit in broken audio gear is caps. Not always, but often!

In looking over this thread again, and Dan's photos, I can't help but be impressed with the amplifier module contained in the F113. It is impressive.

I have two E110's in my bedroom theater, and one E112 in my 2 channel office system. They do a fabulous job. :yes:

r0b 01-06-2019 07:59 PM

@dan,:cheers:
@pete, agreed!

The fact that this was a rather simple repair, and that it was only caps, gives me more confidence in JL Audio subs! I will continue to be a customer when it is time to upgrade or expand into 2.2. I would have thought the actual moving driver would fail first but fortunately it is still kicking.

FWIW, the date on the box for this sub is 2009. I got it used in 2014, and its use is regular / near daily at low to moderate volume. So like Dan, it has served me well for many years and I also leave its power setting on Auto.

Makes me wonder why only the power supply caps needed replacement. Is it because of the 85C specification?

Like others have noted, caps don’t last forever. I’d be willing to change out all of the caps now that I have seen how easy it is to change two.

jdandy 01-06-2019 08:14 PM

r0b.......I don't have a schematic for my f113 but as I am able to determine the auto-on sensing circuit cuts power to the amplifier circuitry, yet the auto-on circuit remains energized 24/7 when the auto-on mode is selected in order for it to control the relays that power the amplifier once an incoming audio signal is detected. This means the capacitors in the amplifier are only energized while music is playing, and once the auto-on circuit senses loss of audio signal and times out the amplifier is no longer energized. This would naturally extend the life of the amplifier's capacitors.

Vintage Pete 01-06-2019 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 948173)
r0b.......I don't have a schematic for my f113 but as I am able to determine the auto-on sensing circuit cuts power to the amplifier circuitry, yet the auto-on circuit remains energized 24/7 when the auto-on mode is selected in order for it to control the relays that power the amplifier once an incoming audio signal is detected. This means the capacitors in the amplifier are only energized while music is playing, and once the auto-on circuit senses loss of audio signal and times out the amplifier is no longer energized. This would naturally extend the life of the amplifier's capacitors.

I keep my subs on auto-on as well. I can hear the subs power down after roughly 30 minutes of no incoming signal. You can hear a very quiet "thump" as it powers off the amplifier.

r0b 01-06-2019 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 948173)
r0b.......I don't have a schematic for my f113 but as I am able to determine the auto-on sensing circuit cuts power to the amplifier circuitry, yet the auto-on circuit remains energized 24/7 when the auto-on mode is selected in order for it to control the relays that power the amplifier once an incoming audio signal is detected. This means the capacitors in the amplifier are only energized while music is playing, and once the auto-on circuit senses loss of audio signal and times out the amplifier is no longer energized. This would naturally extend the life of the amplifier's capacitors.

Makes sense; seems there is no need to worry, despite years of use. Thanks! :thumbsup:

jdandy 05-01-2019 08:17 PM

Update:

My JL Audio Fathom f113 subwoofer is still rocking the living room system. It has been 10 months since replacing the capacitor in the auto-on circuit board and the subwoofer continues to work perfectly. I still find myself glancing at the subwoofer's grill each morning when I energize the system to make sure I see the green lights come on, always happy to see them glowing through the grill cloth.

Color me a happy listener. . :roots:

Masterlu 05-01-2019 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 926894)
John.......I use the Signstek MESR-100 capacitor meter.

https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-MESR...70_&dpSrc=srch

What? A tool I don’t have... now I do! ;)

Mack 05-02-2019 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 963389)
Update:

My JL Audio Fathom f113 subwoofer is still rocking the living room system. It has been 10 months since replacing the capacitor in the auto-on circuit board and the subwoofer continues to work perfectly. I still find myself glancing at the subwoofer's grill each morning when I energize the system to make sure I see the green lights come on, always happy to see them glowing through the grill cloth.

Color me a happy listener. . :roots:

Has it really been that long? Seems like a few months ago

Masterlu 05-02-2019 03:07 PM

http://www.rei360.net/wp-content/upl...ly-300x260.png

electrafixion 05-05-2019 10:42 PM

Thanks to jdandy for his informative post. I recently picked up a used F110 sub with an early 2012 build date, and decided to take a peak at the capacitors on the amp board.

My unit uses Capxon capacitors, but there appears to be several different series identified by color. About half of the caps with blue labels had high ESR. The 33uf / 400v cap was was in very bad condition. All of the black, orange, and green labeled caps measured fine.

I changed all the blue labeled caps for new 105 degree Nichicons which were listed as well suited for switching power supplies (which is basically what these amps are).

Here's a photo in case it proves useful for anyone with an F110 who wants to do this themselves:

https://i.imgur.com/4XZmlgBl.jpg

jdandy 05-06-2019 09:17 AM

electrafixion.......Great job. You should get many more years of great service from the f110. Thanks for the photo and the outline on the suspicious caps.

Masterlu 05-07-2019 01:04 AM

Dan... I bought 6 of each Cap you mentioned earlier in this thread from Mouser, just to keep on hand. Dirt cheap, and super fast shipping.

Thanks! :ok:

jdandy 05-07-2019 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterlu (Post 964086)
Dan... I bought 6 of each Cap you mentioned earlier in this thread from Mouser, just to keep on hand. Dirt cheap, and super fast shipping.

Thanks! :ok:

Ivan.......That's the way to do it. Spare parts are always good to have on hand. Hopefully they will not be needed for a long time, but you never know.

doggiehowser 06-14-2019 06:22 AM

I’ve just joined the dead F113 club. I was watching Spiderverse a month or so ago and it was still chugging along. But watching Bohemian Rhapsody didn’t have as much punch. My Crowson shakers probably masked the loss of the sub.

Wish I’d seen this thread earlier. I ended up ordering a GoldenEar SuperSub XXL with dual 12” and dual passive radiators today.

That arrives on Monday.

In the meantime, this will give me a chance to test my soldering skills. Thanks to the thread starter and the various contributors for the help.

To be fair, the f113 has served me well for 7 years. And it was so impressive I stopped using the Crowson transducers for a long time. I only put it back on to do a demo for a friend.

Would be keen to see how the GoldenEar stacks up.

[emoji51]

jdandy 06-14-2019 09:22 AM

doggiehowser.......If you follow the method described for removing the amp from the f113 subwoofer and replace the caps described, I am relatively confident your Fathom will be back in business for years to come. It is worth repairing. It has been almost a year since I repaired my f113 and it is still working perfectly.

doggiehowser 06-14-2019 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 968624)
doggiehowser.......If you follow the method described for removing the amp from the f113 subwoofer and replace the caps described, I am relatively confident your Fathom will be back in business for years to come. It is worth repairing. It has been almost a year since I repaired my f113 and it is still working perfectly.

About to print out the photos and the instructions. It looks like there are just two large screws holding the plate amp in place?

It's still such an amazing sub. Anyone know what the v2 adds over the v1?

audio bill 06-14-2019 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggiehowser (Post 968682)
About to print out the photos and the instructions. It looks like there are just two large screws holding the plate amp in place?

It's still such an amazing sub. Anyone know what the v2 adds over the v1?

All of the difference made to the v2 version are detailed here: https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...es-What-s-New-

doggiehowser 06-14-2019 10:07 PM

Thanks audio bill.

doggiehowser 06-15-2019 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 968624)
doggiehowser.......If you follow the method described for removing the amp from the f113 subwoofer and replace the caps described, I am relatively confident your Fathom will be back in business for years to come. It is worth repairing. It has been almost a year since I repaired my f113 and it is still working perfectly.

A friend asked me to look for caps at mouser.com

I have never been more confused.

https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...ZKkJBz7qJsY%3D

This doesn't look like the one in the photo

https://au.mouser.com/images/panason...ges/EEH-ZA.jpg



Or is it this one?
https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...j0GWHtGlel8%3D

https://au.mouser.com/images/panasonic/lrg/nhg_SPL.jpg

doggiehowser 06-15-2019 02:45 AM

Or this one?

https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...bqUE9MEHeRE%3D

https://au.mouser.com/images/nichico...series_DSL.JPG

Is the spec right?

The Nichicon is only rated for 1000 hours - isn't that a bit short? The Panasonic for 2000

Here's a Panasonic with 6000 hours

https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...52BwKUw0HtM%3D

https://au.mouser.com/images/panason...UFR0J102_t.jpg

I am confused.

W9TR 06-15-2019 07:36 AM

JL Audio Fathom f113 repair
 
Here’s what you do. Once you’ve taken the amp out of the sub enclosure, measure the size of the caps you are replacing. Diameter is usually the limiting factor for radial leaded caps.

Then find a replacement cap that is the same diameter with the same capacitance rating and the highest working voltage and temperature rating you can find. If you have a choice, go for the longer base life part as well. A base life of 2000 to 8000 hours is a good target. 1000 hrs is low.

The reason you select parts this way is that voltage stress and temperature stress are the two things that kill electrolytic caps. It’s not linear either.

Doubling the voltage spec will increase life 2.65 times.

Increasing the temp specification is an even bigger life accelerator. Going from an 85 C cap to a 105 C cap when the cap itself is at 50 C will increase the life 4 times.

These effects are multiplicative. So all other things being equal using a 105 degree C cap with twice the voltage rating of the original will increase the life 10.6 times!

I have simplified the math behind these assumptions and can point you to more info if you’d like. I used The ATT Reliability Handbook and MIL HDBK 217 to make these rough calcs.

Tom

doggiehowser 06-18-2019 09:01 AM

Thanks for all the help and pointers.

I’ll try to pull out the amp module over the weekend.

But in the meantime, the GoldenEar is here. And for what I use it for (pure home theatre), it’s bloody awesome.

It doesn’t have ARO or XLR connections.

But it does pack a punch. And a lot of kick.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fe840a18a0.jpg

jdandy 06-18-2019 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggiehowser (Post 968733)
A friend asked me to look for caps at mouser.com

I have never been more confused.

doggiehowser.......See post #4 for photos, and post #71 for Mouser parts numbers for the two capacitors.

doggiehowser 06-18-2019 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 969104)
doggiehowser.......See post #4 for photos, and post #71 for Mouser parts numbers for the two capacitors.



Thanks!

doggiehowser 06-18-2019 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 922655)
Steve.......I ordered the capacitors online from Mouser Electronics. mouser.com

Mouser #:
667-EEU-HD1V101
Mfr. #:
EEU-HD1V101
Desc.:
Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 100uF 35volts 6.3x11.2 LS 2.5mm

1
$0.64
$0.64
1 Shipped



Mouser #:
647-UVY2G330MHD
Mfr. #:
UVY2G330MHD
Desc.:
Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 400volts 33uF 16x25 20% 7.5LS

1
$1.30
$1.30
1 Shipped


MERCHANDISE TOTAL:
$1.94
Order Total:
$9.93

Is 1000 hours for lifespan a bit on the low side?

Masterlu 06-18-2019 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggiehowser (Post 969168)
Is 1000 hours for lifespan a bit on the low side?

Very low hours.

jdandy 06-18-2019 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggiehowser (Post 969168)
Is 1000 hours for lifespan a bit on the low side?

doggiehowser.......I don't concern myself much about hours before failure since those hours can be doubled, even quadrupled by purchasing caps with higher temperature ratings and higher voltage ratings as commented by Tom in post #108.

doggiehowser 06-18-2019 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 969170)
doggiehowser.......I don't concern myself much about hours before failure since those hours can be doubled, even quadrupled by purchasing caps with higher temperature ratings and higher voltage ratings as commented by Tom in post #108.

makes sense. Thanks.

fingers crossed.

Photoboy 06-23-2019 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdandy (Post 922655)
Steve.......I ordered the capacitors online from Mouser Electronics. mouser.com

Mouser #:
667-EEU-HD1V101
Mfr. #:
EEU-HD1V101
Desc.:
Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 100uF 35volts 6.3x11.2 LS 2.5mm

1
$0.64
$0.64
1 Shipped



Mouser #:
647-UVY2G330MHD
Mfr. #:
UVY2G330MHD
Desc.:
Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 400volts 33uF 16x25 20% 7.5LS

1
$1.30
$1.30
1 Shipped


MERCHANDISE TOTAL:
$1.94
Order Total:
$9.93

Hey Dan,
My f110 went belly-up on me last night and I just want to make sure I'm getting the right capacitors. You have the f113 so are these the same capacitors I should get for my f110? Thanks!

jdandy 06-23-2019 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photoboy (Post 969862)
Hey Dan,
My f110 went belly-up on me last night and I just want to make sure I'm getting the right capacitors. You have the f113 so are these the same capacitors I should get for my f110? Thanks!

Photoboy.......I suggest you pull the amp first and look at the capacitors highlighted by the arrows in my f113 amplifier photos. The auto on sensing circuit where the small capacitor is shown by the red arrow is probably your suspect part. Check to see what value it is. It is most likely a 100uf/35volt/85C cap. If so the replace it with the one I ordered, a 100uf/35volt/105C cap. The larger 400 volt cap shown with the yellow arrow may not require replacement. Mine did not.


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/840/2...49690609_o.jpg

Photoboy 06-23-2019 08:11 PM

Thanks Dan. I was never good at understanding electronics but I do know how to follow directions. The info you've provided is awesome.

jdandy 06-23-2019 09:17 PM

Photoboy.......Hopefully this information will help you get your f110 up and running again in a jiffy.

Masterlu 06-23-2019 10:37 PM

We had an incident here on Cape Cod last month with the electric. The AC motor boated; turned on & off very rapidly, about 5 or 6 times in succession. Not even off long enough for a back up generator to turn on, and help.

All of my gear was perfect (some systems were even playing). One F113v2 wasn’t as lucky; it was producing a rather high pitched signal for a sub, at a fairly loud level. The sub was in standby mode.

JL Audio tech support was familiar with the issue; it was a Transistor and a few other components.

They had me measure the impedance of the driver, to verify it was ok. It measured 2.4 ohms (well in the safe zone)

I sent the Amp plate, and the internal crossover (requested by them) for warranty repair. I received it back in about a week, and all is fine once again.

JL does recommend keeping the sub on at all times, as opposed to signal sensing mode.


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