Degritter or Klaudio?
 

I am looking at getting a new RCM. I have researched both the Degritter and the new Klaudio. I know there is a big price difference but I have been fortunate to have the means to buy either with the Boss's blessing (wife). Aside from the cost difference can anyone give me their thoughts on either unit. I see advantages for either the main one being that with the Degritter can use cleaning fluid but the Claudio only water.
I was also considering the Clearaudio Double Matrix but the wait time is probably a year on one of them.

Bill, you have a PM.

As a machine, the Klaudio is very good. I believe you cannot get a record truly clean with ultrasonic water action alone. Cleaning records requires surfactant.

We really enjoy our DeGritter. Records get exceptionally clean. It’s simplicity is awesome. The only negative thing I would mention is the noise. We keep ours in a back room to eliminate that …

As to cleaning fluid in the DeGritter I don’t use it. The records get clean enough without it …

I have the Klaudio machine and the beauty of it is its one-button simplicity. I cleaned more records with it in its first year than I cleaned in the previous decade with my Nitty Gritty. All it requires is that you push one button. The machine does everything else but put it in a clean sleeve.

In my experience, the only records that require more aggressive treatment than US and water alone are used records that have been mistreated. I'm not inclined to acquire such records but should that happen, the LP can get the NG treatment before being put in the Klaudio.

Lord knows the Klaudio is a pricey purchase. But after considering the expenses I'd already absorbed to play records and the number of LPs I own, it seemed worth it.

Thanks, mine would be in a closet and noise is not really an issue.

Thanks

I started with the NG 2.5Fi, then stepped up to the NG mini-Pro model. Once US models started to gain traction I did my research. Two models were available then, Klaudio and Audio Desk Systeme. I decided on the ADS Pro since this model worked out the design flaws of the previous ADS model. The dealer accepted my NG mini pro as a trade in which helped with the net due. A few years ago a member here (Goulic?) did a comparison of the KLaudio, ADS and Clearaudio Double Smart Matrix but I do not recall his outcome.

This feedback may or may not help, I have 2 of the older KLAudio RCMs and they are great units. There is an argument to be made for the Degritter and its ability to use cleaning fluid, however I have cleaned hundreds of 78s that are far dirtier than any sleeved LP you'll come across in my first KLA with great results. You can literally see the funk in the water after cleaning maybe 10 records, this doesn't happen with LPs. So IMO, the usage of cleaning fluid isn't a factor.

The new KLA uses an external water tank (plastic jug), which I think is both a good and bad thing. Bad in that it is more things to hook up and seems like more of a DIY home solution. The Degritter's removable tank is a nice feature and one of the main reasons I have considered purchasing one and selling one of my KLA units.

I'm a fan of KLAudio, their service is great, but if I was just diving in with my first ultrasonic RCM I'd have to lean toward the Degritter. With a dealer discount, it's half the price of the KLAudio. That $3,000+ price delta can buy a heck of a lot of records or a cart upgrade for your TT. Of course this is all just my 2 pennies.

Love my Degritter, 1000+ LPs cleaned and running strong, coming from VPI 16.5, like moving from the analog to the digital era of RCMs! Not familiar with the Klaudio so cannot comment. Both Klaudio and Degritter owners seem pretty satisfied so I guess in the end it's a matter of how much you're willing to spend...

I'm a satisfied Audio Desk Pro user, but if I were buying now I'd lean towards the Degritter for the variety of programming options, the removable tank, the ability to use a cleaning solution when necessary, and the price.

Thanks for the info

Thanks

Thanks

I thought KLAudio DQ'd their RCM production a while back. Now they decided to get back in the game?

Their commitment to the business model would be a concern to me. I have my eye on the DeGritter. (But my MO is to buy kit on the cheap whenever possible)

I am leaning more towards the DeGritter myself. I have watched several online reviews on it. The Klaudio while I am sure it is a superb machine, would require some alterations to my closet with the external tank. Will decide in the next week or so. I like that you can add cleaner to the DeGritter if necessary.

I'm not sure what would make one think Degritter is any more or less committed to the business than Klaudio. Klaudio stopped making the old units because they couldn't turn enough profit at the price point. They are owned by Koolance which has been around since 2000, Degritter has been around since 2015. I'm not knocking Degritter at all, just giving facts about the businesses.

i use a VPI 16.5. works well; just takes time and effort. i ordered a degritter and used it for a couple weeks. i was not very impressed with it. it leaves smudge marks(amazing how many smudge marks are on new vinyl) since no mechanical action. also the vinyl that had pops before cleaning had same pops after degritter. just feel at that price point and above the unit should have both ultrasonic and mechanical cleaning. will probably go with the new audiodesk pro.

For the record, I never made any suggestion that DeGritter was more committed to their business model than Klaudio. My comment was meant solely as a personal observation and nothing more. It is clearly a world class RCM and I don't think there could be any legitimate argument to the contrary.

Just my two cents on the ultrasonic cleaners that I and my audiophile friends have or have had;
-Audiodesk, regular, pro and pro x models, all have failed in one way or another and the support from dealers and mfg. has been poor, one dealer has told us your lucky it lasted that long (regular and pro models), also the mfg. always wants to "blame" the user for premature failures, (failed after cleaning only 50 records, failed after 2 years of non-constant useage, and they also want to charge $2000 to $2500 for a newer model after you paid $4000 for a new one). Come on $4000 for a record cleaner that doesn't last and constantly breaks down!
Degritter- we have used this machine and it cleans well, seems to be well built, and mfg. is good to deal with
KL Audio- while they may build a decent machine back when they were first in business and now, how can you trust that they will "stay in business", since they raised the price substantially and may not sell as many machines at the higher price.
Many of us in the audiophile world have some knowledge of manufacturing and quality control and should not just take the sales jargon of the mfgs., distributors, and dealers without doing due diligence and questioning these questionable machines.

Thanks

I have had my ADS Pro for approx 4 yrs and have cleaned approx 500 LPs with no issue at all. I try to change fluid after every 100 LPs, change/clean filter after every 200 LPs, change roller brushes and drying strips every 400 LPs. I have been completely satisfied with the ADS Pro model.

I've has ADS Pro for about 2 years with no issues as well.

There's really no assurance that any company will remain in business. General Motors - once the world's largest auto maker - went bankrupt in 2009. The GM of today doesn't have much in common with the GM of yore.

Klaudio sure looks to me like an established company with innovative, very high quality products. Its corporate parent has been operating for more than two decades.

I've had the KD-CLN-LP200 cleaner for years and it's fantastic. Support has been first class.

True - do you think KLAudio would get a government bailout like GM? :)

Perhaps if the president were a vinyl addict they would....!:thought:

https://www.audioaficionado.org/atta...1&d=1656081938

:lmao:

Looks more like a rodeo ride than a platter spinning.

Superb tracker that.

FWIW I went with the Klaudio. I must say it is built like a tank. It was easy to set up. I had to only cut a hole in my closet shelf in order to route the water lines and pump cable. It will be very easy to replenish my water supply. I find that it needs about 4 minutes to really get a record dry. Ivan suggested that I put a few drops of Kodak Photo Flo solution in the water tank and i will try that. It sure gets the albums spotless though. I am using RO water.

Outstanding! :thumbsup:

Congrats! I think you are going to love it. There's just nothing like the convenience and effectiveness of the Klaudio, imo.

I agree; I have 2 in use, and a new spare. :confused-18:

So far I am cleaning every record before I play them regardless of when I might have cleaned them on my Pro Ject VC-E cleaner. I will sell the Pro Ject pretty soon. I doubt I will ever use again.

ivan,

do you sell this KLaudio vinyl cleaner?

has anyone compared the KLaudio to the Audiodesk pro?

Unfortunately Ivan does not sell the Klaudio. I talked to Ivan about record cleaners. He said he cannot sell them because Acoustic Sounds had the exclusive dealership worldwide except for Korea and China. I would have preferred to buy from Ivan.

I just set up a new Klaudio today and I have to say I’m impressed with the unit. I was a little hesitant considering the price but based on the reviews (convenience and build quality) I was willing to take the plunge. I set everything up tonight and cleaned a few records. This thing is solid. I also splurged for the optional “silencer” outer housing. It even has an extra fan in the housing to evacuate the air and avoid moisture buildup. It works well, nice and quiet with it installed. So far, very happy.

Now I just need to sell my Okki Nokki.

Congrats on the Klaudio, they are indeed great RCMs. I'm glad they got back into the business, they're pricey but IMO you get what you pay for.

Degritter is releasing a Mark II version of its ultrasonic machine. Coming this month.

From the press release:

"Hello Friends!


Some of you have had questions about the development of our new products and, admittedly, we haven’t been too clear in communicating any potential updates. That is because we didn’t want to rush into announcing details. Until now, that is.

Degritter MARK II

Today, we’d proudly like to announce the new MARK II model of our popular Degritter machine. This will become available for purchase for everyone starting from next week, on the 25th of November at a similar price point as the previous Degritter model.

The Degritter MARK II is a more efficient and user-friendly take on the classic Degritter (which, in our slightly biased opinion, is the world’s best ultrasonic record cleaner 😎) comes with new and improved functionalities and perfected user experience. More on all the updates and technical details below.


Degritter MARK I

We’d like to assure all current Degritter owners that we’ll keep on supporting the previous model, which will now be designated as MARK I. Together with the new software upgrade released last week, these machines are still stellar and share most of the features and pedigree with the MARK II. For those about to tip their toes into the Degritter experience for the first time, you may also want to look out for great deals with our distributors on these machines.

Degritter MARK II Features

The new Degritter MARK II machines include all the best features of MARK I, but builds on it with a more efficient ultrasonic architecture and improved ease of use.

Designed For You
• Distinctly Automatic
The Degritter is fully automatic, requiring no additional effort after the cleaning cycle has started. Use the free time for listening to records instead of cleaning them.
• Simple Water Management
The machine has a convenient removable water tank for replacing cleaning water.
• Perfect Touch Buttons NEW!
We have perfected the feel and function of the machine’s buttons. The rotations and presses provide most satisfying feel you will be unable to let go of.
Ultrasonic Cleaning Architecture
• 4 Transducer Layout
Ultrasonic cleaning tank that’s in Degritter is purpose built for vinyl records. The tank has two ultrasonic transducers on either side emitting 120 kHz ultrasonic vibrations, evenly distributing the cleaning energy across the record's surface.
• Power Drive 2.0 NEW!
o Pulse Mode NEW!
Pulse Mode cleaning is a feature offered by the Power Drive 2.0 ultrasonic generator. During pulsing, ultrasonic transducers rapidly switch on and off at high power. This gives enhanced cavitation in water, but keeps the average power consumption low.
o Frequency Sweep
The driving frequency of the Power Drive ultrasonic generator sweeps between 120-125 kHz. This evens the cavitation energy distribution in the water, minimizing losses and giving an uniform cleaning action.
o 300 Watts
The average power output of all the washing programs is 300 W. This makes Degritter the most powerful ultrasonic record cleaner on the market per liter of water. The higher 120 kHz driving frequency keeps your records safe.
Clever Features
• Active Filtering
Cleaning water is pumped through a replaceable filter during washing. Continuous filtration keeps removed dirt from ending back up on the record.
• Record Safe Temperature Control
Degritter monitors water temperature and prevents it from rising to levels harmful for vinyl records. High temperatures are managed by automatic cooling cycles.
• Smart Drying
Records are dried by a flow of filtered air. Both the drying time and fan speed can be adjusted to keep noise levels in check and to prevent static electricity build up.
• Postwash Rinse Option NEW FOR MARK I & MARK II
Degritter supports rinsing records during washing cycles with the help of a separate water tank.

The MARK II will become available from our dealers and website starting from next week. Feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.

Best,
Degritter Team"