Incomparable XVX/MC3500
 

I am glad to have lived long enough to have experienced the sound I hear coming out of my XVX. I truly enjoyed my MC1.25KW's. They are superb. I honestly bought the MC3500's on a lark, on impulse. I had just made a huge amount of money in the stock market, and when something like that happens....:D

So I wasn't expecting much. I really wasn't. When I went from a MC275 to a SS MC2100 40+ years ago, I absolutely remember thinking how similar they sounded through my DQ10's (Upgraded to the better woofer and super tweeter).

But the MC3500 intrigued me and I knew I'd better order one quick, if I was going to do it. Right away I could tell it was something special. Now I think it may be the best amp ever. In the world of low powered tube amps, that barely meet their specs for power, it's like an arc reactor of power.

It handles my XVX like it was a baby. The sound has a life to it I have never heard or expected. The bass is full, super fast, resolved, and can have a slightly different pitch on occasion, than the 1.25. The raw power of the amp is immense.

Try Wilson Audio Winds of War and Peace, first cut Liberty Fanfare, if you dare at a high volume. You may blow both your speakers and amps up. The 3500 will do 500+ watts both speakers on the massive drum, no flashing lights or signs of distress, volume at 67%! It's LOUD!:yes:

This would destroy virtually any tube amp. The resolution, soundstage height, depth, and delicacy are astounding. The bass has a resolution and dynamic that is incredible. The 1.25 is slow by comparison and it is certainly no slouch when it comes to LF reproduction.

I now believe my audio memory is jogged to remember there was a significant difference between the SS MC2100 and tube MC275. Mac did a great job with the 2100 and I wasn't a good enough listener to appreciate the difference. I focused on the similarities, not the differences.

Virtually every CD I play through the 3500's is so much more enjoyable. Example, I'm listening to Mercury Records CD: "Fennell Plays Sousa". I always thought it had no bass and was bright. It's a joy to hear through the 3500's.

The XVX is hands down the best audio purchase I ever made or ever will make. Nothing compares to this speaker and certainly not the MC3500. But I have found MY AMPS and MY SPEAKERS. OK, I admit it. Tubes beat SS when it comes to power amps, at least with Wilson's.:music:

Best

Charles

__________________________________________________ _
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: None
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport; Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic; WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection; New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes; Thor is now off my floor; MC3500MKII mono block amps (2) and two custom granite slabs; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover; new 75-ohm multi-directional FM antenna for tuner
Amps: McIntosh MC3500MKII mono blocks (2), McIntosh MC1.25KW’s (3). All amps set on floor on custom made granite slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie; custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from ActivXO crossover to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to ActivXO; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

Try the XVX with DarTZeel’s pre and power amps and prepared to be blown away. McIntosh is great, don’t get me wrong; but not in the level of ‘Zeel. And your XVX should get the best amplification possible.

:lurk:

I believe these are the amps that Jacob Heilbrunn uses with his WAMM's; also Mike Fremmer with his XVX. NHB-468 mono amps and produce roughly 500 watts or about the same in power as the 3500 at least according to published specs. However when measured:

"With that caution in mind and with "clipping" defined as when the THD+noise reaches 1%, I found that the NHB-468 clipped at 216W into 16 ohms (26.2dBW, fig.4), 398W into 8 ohms (26.0dBW, fig.5), 205W into 4 ohms (201.1dBW, fig.6), and 101W into 2 ohms (140dBW, fig.7)." See Stereophile Dartzeel 468 review. Them's are some pretty expensive watts. :D

This would not be my amp of choice if I were going to buy an amp. A 230K/pair amp that will clip at 101 watts into 2-ohms isn't for me. My choice for my XVX other than a 3500 would be the new Relentless Epic. However, I'll stick with my MC3500 which will do about 700 beautiful tube dynamic watts into 2, 4, or 8 ohms. :yes:

Best

Charles

In college at UF, the guys in the apartment above me had a set of DQ-10's
I dunno if it was due to young ears and party time, but they were AWESOME.
I always wanted a set.

Charles,

Congrats on a terrific system.

It wouldn’t cost you anything for a demo on Westminster Labs REI mono amps. They only send you one set and they sound majestic. I’m getting 200w Class A - very liquid sound. If we bridge them - they are specifically made for this - then we’ll receive 700w of Class A. To date the best amp we’ve heard. Several that own DartZeel, MSB, etc are replacing them with these. It’s that good.

We are also trying the Vitus SM-103 monos. These area world class tier 1 amps. They have stunning sound and looks.

Famester V1, what a beautiful system you have!

I remember in a showroom so many years ago in a shopping center somewhere, they were displaying some fake Klipschorns. There was a couple there that was extremely impressed and the claim was that these "Kilpschorns" sounded better than the real Klipschorn. I saw in the distance a pair of DQ10's. I asked the salesperson to audition the DQ10's for them before buying. I hung around to listen. They did not purchase the fake Klipsch's, I can tell you.

In that day DQ10's put many speakers to shame. It was the first time aligned speaker, the forerunner of Wilsons.

I wish I'd kept mine, but I didn't have the sense to.

Best

Charles

Joe, I briefly read about both amps. Knowing me I know that you know I would prefer the Vitus. The Westminster Labs must necessarily be sliding bias Class-A and purist that I am, I don't believe in sliding bias, but I certainly leave room to be proven wrong.

One of the reasons I posted the thread was to emphasize the desirability of achieving a measure of peace and stability with one's gear. I really liked my 1.25KW's. I love the McIntosh sound, but I knew there were better amps out there, albeit much much more expensive.

I have achieved something very rare in the true high end universe. I have found an amp that I am 100% totally satisfied with. The MC3500 MKII will never be changed in my lifetime. It is ageless and so very beautiful I can't take my eyes off it. It sounds an order of magnitude better than a 1.25KW. I never thought I'd say that. I would never consider another amplifier, remotely, and I have my 1.25's as worthy backups (two of them).

My XVX falls into the same category. I will never replace these speakers. I have never heard anything like them.

So I wrote the thread not to brag, but for interested readers to search for that elusive "eternal system", that will provide the "perfect" sound to their ears, and then stop the endless quest that often leads to frustration.

The main cause of this frustration is often a lack of understanding and confusion created by folks who have little understanding of the high end or have abandoned their roots, if they ever had any, and gone into multichannel digital madness, which causes endless tweaks and additions like subs with digital room correction, etc.

By then the original signal has become so manipulated and distorted that it is not even a poor facsimile of the original signal on the CD, SACD, download, or vinyl.

The only system I would recommend of this nature is SCAudiophile's (Mark), which he built from the ground up. I would greatly enjoy hearing his system. I know it sounds amazing. :yes:

Best

Charles

p.s. I believe you have a gorgeous classic two channel stereo system. I think Magico will soon create an M7, else why the jump to the M9. It will be the XVX direct competitor and replace the Q7. A Titan would be the only sub I would ever consider with any Magico. Then you have your "eternal system" provided you can find a suitable amp all in your new audio room.

Yes the Vitus is high on my list as well. I’m not getting subs for this present system as with the new amps they drive the M3s much better than the Pass. Don’t get me wrong, Pass is good gear, but next to Vitus 103s there’s no competition. The system with the REIs is sounding excellent and driving the Magicos gloriously. According to REI it is true Class A, but as you said it’s a form of sliding bias, which Nelson Pass and the guy from Gryphon says isn’t true Class A.

A dedicated room is what I still need to really hear what this system is truly capable of. It won’t come to latter.

Getting to a stopping point (contentment point) I think should be one of the goals of being an audiophile. We do seem to always be tweaking many things. Arriving at that complete contentment point can be rather a rather long and difficult (yet enjoyable) journey.

Joe, I have always believed Class-A superior to any other solid state amplification, but not for me because of the heat and idle power consumption. Pass makes a mono XS300 that will do 1200 watts into 2-Ohms. It would be difficult to clip this amp. The 3500 passes all my acid tests for adequate power, including "Liberty Fanfare" as mentioned above.

Class AB solid state amps when they use more than about 10-15% of their available power can begin to sound "solid state". The desirable quality of tubes is that a well engineered amp like a 3500 retains all its wonderful sonics to clipping, which in the case of the 3500 is well over 500 watts. In addition, the 3500 provides true clipping protection and extremely accurate meters that allow me to know the watts. It runs extremely cool, requiring no fan. The sonics are the best I have ever heard. I have found my perfect amp.

I think you are much younger than me. You are on your high end journey and I think it will end well for you. You have naturally good instincts. This is evident by your choice of Magico, Class-A, and leaving off the subs until you achieve your new room and possibly a pair of M7's. Then you will be ready for the Titan. It's something to look forward to.

When Mac comes out with a D1200 I will purchase it. I will continue to update this piece until I can't hear anymore. That's it for me. It's nice for readers to see two folks at different stages in their journey, that have chosen classical stereo and passive room correction in order to achieve an accurate reproduction of the source, whether it be CD, SACD, download, or vinyl.:yes:

Best

Charles