Koetsu Rosewood Standard vs. Lyra Kleos
 

I'm wondering if anyone has heard both of these cartridges.

I currently own the Koetsu Rosewood Standard, but have since upgraded my speakers from Tyler Decade D2 to Sonus Faber Olympica III. The Koetsu has performed very well in both systems, but I have to admit it was a bit nicer on the D2's as they were a bit more clinical and needed the mid-range warmth more than the SF's do.

I'm left wondering if a more detailed cartridge wouldn't be the ticket. I like warmth, but not at the cost of detail. From reviews, the Kleos seems like it may strike a balance for me. Should I ride out the Koetsu and have it rebuilt into a Rosewood Platinum when the time comes? Other choices?

I'd be running it through my trusty McIntosh C2600 and mounting it on my Project Xtension 10.

Thanks in advance.

Ryan

Do whatever is least expensive. My guess is that would be upgrading the Koetsu.

Koetsu Rosewood Standard vs. Lyra Kleos
 

Solid advice - I will definitely be doing a cost comparison on the rebuild vs. selling the Koetsu and replacing it. Patience would need to come into play, too. As I understand it, it takes about 8 weeks to rebuild the rosewood standard.

Yes, I had mine rebuilt some years ago. It's a complete ground-up rebuild, so effectively a brand-new cartridge in all respects.

Cannot comment on the Koetsu, but am very fond of the Kleos for its detail. For the best mix of detail without losing any warmth, the Ortofon Cadenza Black is my favorite. I can see their A90 or A95 in my future.

You may also want to consider purchasing a dedicated phono preamp instead of using your c2600. When I had a Lyra Kleos, I noticed a huge improvement going into a dedicated phono preamp over using my C2300 or C1100.

I've had Ortofons in the past and have liked them a lot. I've never heard a Lyra, though. They get great reviews, but some have said they trend toward accuracy vs. intimacy. Does that track with your experience between the Kleos vs. the Ortofon?

I think my rabbit hole may be limited to the cartridge on this journey, :D I agree, though. While my C2600 is better to my ears than my prior Musical Surroundings Phonomena II, I know there are better out there.

Don't even get me started on separate DACs vs. the C2600, :scratch2:

rjryan, I was mentioning an updated phono preamp since you may be able to keep your existing cartridge with better sound. You should be able to get a pretty good phono preamp for the cost of a $3,700 Lyra Kleos.

Yes. I would say your 'accuracy vs. intimacy' would be a reasonable descriptive comparison with neither being overbearing in either dimension. Both provide excellent sound. As a classic jazz listener bass and lower-mids have a bit more depth with the Ortofon while the upper half of the sound has a bit more clarity with the Lyra. Both are excellent, but different.

Ryan,

I'll take a stab at answering your question regarding a Koetsu Rosewood v. a Lyra Kleos. Although I don't have first hand knowledge of the Rosewood, I do own a Koetsu Vermillion and a Lyra Kleos so the comparison may be comparable. As you stated, the Koetsu provides tremendous warmth and it's wonderful as you know on jazz and vocals. However, it does not have the speed, dynamics and low-end that the Kleos possesses in spades. Your transition to the SF speakers may give you the "warmth" you seek. I find myself missing the Koetsu's midrange warmth when I listen to the Kleos and the speed of the Lyra on certain pieces when I listen to the Koetsu.

As you move up the Koetsu line (e.g. Rosewood Platinum), the sound may be more neutral (read "fast") without losing that Koetsu magic. My druthers more times than not was with the Vermillion which may reflect more my taste in music (jazz and vocals). I eventually got an Lyra Etna SL, which was finally able to provide the best of both worlds IMHO.

Thanks for your insights! This gives me a lot to consider. A friend of mine has a Koetsu Jade and I think you are right-on with your assessment of a more neutral sound moving up the line. His Jade really digs out quite a bit of detail, but I'm thinking that one may be a bit more than my tone arm (and wallet) can handle, lol!

I've had my Rosewood longer than any other cartridge I've owned, but like cars, I always try to have this conversation with myself before the secondary value drops off. Right now, it is in perfect shape, is performing beautifully and could be sold or traded in good confidence.

Decisions, decisions :-)

Very true!

I went from a Benz Ruby 2 to a Lyra Kleos. Recently I was able to listen to a Koetsu Urushi Blue on a friends similar front end. The main differences I heard going from the Benz to the Lyra was in resolution. The Lyra is a lot more resolved in all areas, but it is also not as warm sounding as any wood bodied cartridge--including the Benz's, or the Koetsu's that use a wood body.
The Koetsu Urushi Blue is a beautiful sounding cartridge, but it is far more colored than the Lyra. The Lyra requires a very very precise set up and loading to sound its considerable best, if you cannot accomplish this, best to stick with a Koestu..they are, at least IMO, far more forgiving.

I'm a big fan of Kotesu. I have a handful and love them all. I'd also suggest a phono stage (and or SUT) upgrade can get you what you want without giving up the warmth and musicality of Koetsu. Koetsus love a good SUT and there are a number of choices that will elevate your experience here! I've had great results with Bob's devices Sky, EAR MC-3 (newer model is MC-4), Quadratic MC-1, and Koetus's own SUT on Koetsus.

I'm still trying to get a handle on Ortofons: The Kontrapunt "c" and its successor Cadenza Bronze are a HIT for me. The Jubilee MC (predecessor to Cadenza Black) was a MISS for me. The Windfeld MC was both a HIT and a MISS (mixed feelings on that one). The A90 is definitely a HIT. The new Verismo looks amazing, I want to hear it.

Cannot comment on your Koetsu, but can say that my Kleos is definitely the most detailed of my cartridges if that is what you are looking for. Not edgy, but definitely detailed.