Experience w/ A23 and Shindo IC's
 

Here is my experience. I ran A23 for phono > SUT, SUT > Preamp, and preamp>amp. So I had a full loom of A23, including Speaker cable. Then I bought a 1.0 meter Shindo IC, and tried it in place of the A23 Preamp>amp. That is where it stayed. I felt the noise floor was lower, allowing more detail to come through. With this, there were NO negatives. So the 1.0 meter Shindo replaced the 1.5 meter A23 in that particular run. I have no great desire to change the rest of my IC to Shindo, because the system sounds great. That said, I am curious of anyone else's experience. I believe most run Shindo IC, but of course some run A23. My guess is with either cable, everyone is content, and for good reason. Again, audiophile Nervosa or whatever it is, gets the best of me. Cheers -Don

You positioned the Shindo interconnect at the ideal place.
If you've got lots of money to spend, by all means, invest in more Shindo wire.
It will probably better your sound, but whether the money spent justifies it? Well, that's another matter.
If I were you, I'd leave good enough alone. Invest the money you would have spent upgrading your wire to buy yourself a ton of great vinyl. You've certainly got the system to enjoy it with.

I also have only one Shindo wire and it goes between the pre and the amp (Monbrison->Cortese.)

Alberto

Shindo cables make a big difference for me. All Shindo accessories do.

I have both shindo and auditorium ic's. the shindo is between my sut and the preamp. I am very happy with them. I plan on upgrading the auditorium ic's to shindo some time soon.

I also find my auditorium speaker cables integrate very well with my shindo and Devore speakers.

I use Shindo IC's between my Masseto, Cortese, and ARC Dac8. I also use Auditorium 23 speaker cable. I tried Transparent Ultra and it sounded alright to me. What impressed me most with the addition of Shindo interconnects is that I just dropped being so critical, and began to really just enjoy the music the system was producing.

Thanks for the responses. That was more/less what I had expected. Both IC's not only integrate together, but of course work well with Shindo. My guess is budget and dealer recommendation are how most make their mind up. I would still like to explore trying Shindo IC's at one point though. Cheers -Don

I'm in the process of auditioning some Shindo IC's in my system at the moment. They are a very clear step up compared to the generic cables "DIY'd" for me by my dealer, in all respects. Better smoothness, deeper stage, more definition at the frequency extremes. It's both an "audiophile" improvement and an improvement to the overall feel/flow of music.

I haven't tried the A23 IC's but the price isn't all that different, so I don't really see a reason to try the A23's. It's with speaker cables that the difference in price puts A23 and Shindo cables in different categories.

My guess though is that the sound will be very different given the significant differences in construction.

I've been moving the cable around, and it seems to benefit the digital playback (from my Cosecant) more when the Shindo cable is placed between DAC and preamp. Which makes sense - best cable where the smallest signal comes from. However, putting the cable between pre and amp improves things for vinyl as well.

Has anybody had a Shindo phono cable made for their tonearm? I would presume that to be an important spot, being that its the lowest level signal, but my arm doesn't accept standard RCA's.

BTW...I probably won't have a buying decision just yet as I plan to also audition a Mr T.

Yes, Shindo cable indeed is very good and has to be preferred.

Hey Ken - you should chat with Dale (Dirtbag) he just bought a MR T. and is happy with it.

Ok, I will be the different voice here.....

Does someone can tell me what is the exact material of Shindo IC ?
I read on Matt's site " pure silver " while on many web posts, people say that it is indeed silver coated copper. An other scoop of "mystery" here....:D

I never tried Shindo or A23 ICs or speaker cables. And I won't. At least while I will still have non Shindo speakers.
I agree that Shindo cables should be preferred with Shindo gear, but only in the context of a full Shindo system, from source to speakers. Then, full voicing makes sense. For example, it makes sense that Shindo uses pure silver for speaker cables, when you think that for most listeners, Shindo speakers are a bit limited in frequency in the treble. Silver will reinforce treble presence and weight.

For someone using non Shindo speakers, then the "voicing" is failed and I see no reason why I would prefer them over my WW cables. I must say that I also tend to be more confident with established cable makers ( WW, Van den Hul, Kubala Sosna....) over cables " hand made " by gurus. What this " hand made " means by the way ? Soldering ? Most good cables on the market are terminated by hand.

Anyway to me cables fall roughly in 2 categories, no matter their price. Bad ones are harsh. Good ones are sweet. Differences between good and bad ones can be huge.
But differences between good ones are rather subtle and often do not justify the time spent for the quest and critical listening.

Jerome - while that is all interesting you have never tried shindo or auditorium cables. When you do try them (which you should) then share your thoughts. Until then all you have is ideas and no conclusions.

True.
But time is not unlimited and it is impossible to "try" Shindo cables here. I could try A23 cables because I know Keith Aschenbrenner enough now and I'm sure that he could send me some to try.
But I cannot "try" everything that could improve my system. We have to follow a certain logic. What I say is that having Shindo gear does not mean necessarily that you "need" Shindo or A23 cables to have your gear performing at its best.

The best IC cable I have experienced on my Monbrison is a Siltech Forbes Lake G6 SATT.
It is like Magic between the Shindo preamplifier and an Accuphase amp. Period!

I had Shindo silver cable in the past for many year. Its price is justified but it's not a Top contender for the best cable on the planet. Just my humble user opinion, here...

Experience w/ A23 and Shindo
 

I presently use an IC Ocellia signature and I can say that I prefer the Ocellia to Shindo for this reason: best definition more focusing more air around the instruments and impact.

I'm listening to one of Ocellia signature Speaker cables in the near future.

All Ocellia cables are silver

If you don't use Shindo or A23 cables, which you should because it does sound more correct- i.e. not as flashy with over the top definition or focusing that doesn't not exist in life- you should/must use cables terminated with Switchcraft RCA's that match the Switchcraft used in Shindo components. When you use these other cables- just one single time, you take a huge risk of deforming the low mass hot connector. Now impedance goes high on the connection and you begin to lose frequency extremes, dynamics and energy. I would say most preamps and amps that come to me from mix and match systems need all new jacks. Sometimes this is the case with Shindo or A23 users because they wiggle the jacks to remove them. Straight in and straight out is the only way to use a RCA jack.

In my opinion and experience- if other cables sound better, its simply showing a blockage in your system. EQing with cables is the wrong approach, fix the problem, don't put bandaids and eq's on it. In every case, when the weaknesses are removed, the Shindo or A23 cables sound best again.

Just my inexperienced opinion...

Jonathan
Tone Imports

A cable that will EQ the sound rendition is a horrible product that shall be avoided by all means.
A good cable doesn't impact the frequency response at all. A good cable instills life, dark black silence between notes, allows for tri dimentional soundstage with multilayers, is very neutral from one vinyl/CD to the other recording. And a good cable is super fast with note attacks just like for real live music.

Shindo cables have some of the above virtues, but not all of them ;-)

Ps: I started with Shindo in 2007, so some experience as well.

Thanks Jonathan for bringing this in-all-compass-point-fleeing-discussion back to solid experience talk.

Somebody with deep experience once told me that Ken Shindo "thinks in chains", not in individual components. Using the same cable, be it Shindo or A23, throughout the whole chain, from the source (MC cartridge or CDP) over transformer and amplifiers to the loudspeakers, brings a lot.

I use A23 cables from A to Z and I am perfectly happy with this. My Shindo silver cables rest quietly in the drawer...and I am not getting nervous at all ;-)

As far as I know, A23 cables are also applied in Shindo systems (or chains:-) in Japan.

My humble opinion: Shindo and A23, two cables, two personalities, not two worlds.

Riesling or Chardonnay ? ... just be shure to choose the best winemakers!
;-)

Jonathan,
What is the material of Shindo ICs ? Pure silver ?

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what they are made from. Ken Shindo recommends his cables for his equipment as it is supposed to be a 'system'. Too many audiophiles do just as Vinyljh says, and that is to try and patch or bandaid their systems with other cables.
I have seen a few Shindo preamps with damaged RCA sockets due to guys using 'fancy' locking rca plugs or somesuch. Without fail all of these people have approached building up their systems in such haphazard ways that they lose sight of the goal.
Ultimately anyone can do what they want, but to realise the best out of any Shindo gear, follow the recommendations of the manufacturer, he does know best.

The other time I heard this story about the "danger " of using non Switchcraft plugs was when I bought my Hommage T2.
Keith told me the same thing.
I have some trouble understanding what's happening exactly.
I thought that RCA plugs were a standard with norms. How could a male RCA plug could "damage " a female Switchcraft plug ?
Mystery mysteries.....

I do not agree Neil.
Shindo IC cables are advertised on Matt's web as made of pure silver. If this is not the case, this is again disinformation and the same story goes as with the tubes labeling....

A customer has the right to know what he buys. If a product is advertised as being pure silver, then it should be made of pure silver and not silver coated copper. Honesty is a word that exists also in Japan I think.

jerome, calm down. Using "ifs" can get a mine field. There is absolutely no reason to not trust the information from Matt's website.

As far as I can see in my Shindo cables, they are made of pure silver; braid pattern on the outer ring, single wire in the center; symmetrical construction as stated here : Shindo Labs Essentials

Speaker cables are made of silver.
I know several persons who wanted to change the plugs on ICs and discovered that they are in fact made of silver coated copper.

I wrote about interconnects that are real and in my possession.

Shindo cables are indeed pure silver. Always have been. Plenty of fakes are floating around... if the cable purchased was silver coated copper, it was not a Shindo cable.

A23 is copper. Not that it matters, its about the result, not the material.

Riesling is 100% correct as is Neil. Cellindo- we do not at all agree. Or maybe its better to say we agree to disagree.

Whatever makes you happy is cool with me. If someone wants to know how to use the products correctly i.e. as it was designed- speak with a dealer that knows these products and he can pass along the information from the creator of the equipment. If you choose to EQ it and you like that version of it, thats cool. At the end of the day its whatever makes you happy. Its just not better in an absolute sense, it is indeed a EQ of the original design- you're changing the electrical load as well as creating an electrical current by using a non Switchcraft connectors. And for sure the contacts can be destroyed easily. Switchcraft to Switchcraft, WBT to WBT, Cardas to Cardas etc. etc. Engineering 101- like materials for starters, not to mention connectors that fit each other. RCA's have no standard. Locking RCA's are possibly one of the dumbest and worst sounding audiophile inventions... although I guess I can say that about a lot of things:-)

Jonathan

How do you know that they are made of pure silver ? Did you remove the connectors to access the cable ?

Maybe that Shindo changed the material used since a few years. The people I'm talking about bought their cables from authorized Shindo dealers, but that was a few years ago. From what I learned today, Laurent's cable was also made of copper coated with silver.

Hi all:
Without getting into the current sticky wicket, I have tried to run "Shindo" cable where it seems most like it should. I use Shindo I/C from my SUT to the Masseto and then to the Montille. My other I/C lines are all Black Cat LectraLine (silver solid core). I use the A23 speaker cables. Therefore, I have tried what I consider a value approach (granted I may be losing out in that final 5%, but I have other areas that may impact as well), with Shindo attention to what I listen most - analog...
Best, jdk

Oh hell. Mine are chocolate covered peanut butter!

The best combination, without question!

Shindo interconnects and Loudspeaker wire are both silver.

Auditorium 23 interconnects are copper.

-M

Good to know Matt, thanks !

Lets not go down that road again. To some people it does matter.

Matt, how would one know if the RCA inputs have been compromised? I have only used shindo or A23 cables, but as my preamp was pre-owned (bought from a dealer) how could I be sure that the previous owner did not do damage?

Jerome, I wasn't implying that they are not made of what they are made of. What I meant was in the context of a Shindo system it doesn't matter what they are made of as Shindo-san designs his equipment to be used as a 'system' not a group of individual bits.

Peace, friend!

I know Neil. No worries.

Good question which is parallel to mine, but should be asked to Jonathan since he raised the issue. He seems to say that the sound is degraded.
In electricity, I always thought that there is contact and flowing of the current or no contact. I do not understand the concept of bad contact.

The Cinch connectors are a typical example of Male (plug) and Female (socket/receptacle) type of contact.

The always existing variations of the male pin diameter (hot contact on the plug) will be easily compensated by the inner contact 'spring effect' in the female socket. It always works like this. That is rather simple and certainly not rocket science!!!



However, two useful points to be noticed:

1) I do admit that different connector choices on the IC cable will bring very subtle sonic differences. Heavier/bulkier is not always better! The Switchcraft low metal mass Cinch plugs are certainly good products indeed.

2) In connector technology best practice, it is ideal to have the same plating for both the male & female contacts. This would avoid some microscopic current at the interface.
For durability as well if you were going to plug/unplug thousand of times during the product life.
Last case, if your villa is situated next to the sea side in a hot and humid climate (let's say in Phuket as an example) I would definitively recommand to use the same brand ie. material and plating, for the socket and plug.

From an inexperienced poster who worked 9 years in the connector industry. ;-)

Laurent : good post !
to be more specific, do you believe in "damage" to the Switchcraft female connectors caused by the use of other brands male RCA connectors ? Does a connector could be "damaged" and cause a light degradation in the sound ?

hah! can't wait to see the next trend on audigon: "only ever used with shindo or a23 cables"

well C-J, I guess you can only presume all sockets were replaced as a preventative measure.

:lmao:
anyway I would love to get the opinion of other AA members on this particular subject, and not Shindo users only.