Absolute Sound Review of 801 D4
 

Interesting review. Discussed how sensitive they were to having the right kind of power as with his existing Pass XA 60.8 monoblocks with 60 Watts of power experienced, " a lack of control and grip with dynamic source material". He claimed this also included Piano recordings. Even with a 200W per channel amplifier he said he had to "lean in" to engage with the music. Part of this I wonder is if he was too close to the speakers for him to experience a fully coherent sound stage. He stated he was only 8 to 9 feet away in a listening room 15x15 which would appear to be too small for the 801.

Others on this forum including Joey had this experience with the 800 D3 and felt he could not get his listening chairs far enough back and that the speaker had to be pulled further away from the back wall due to bass challenges.

He did agree however the speakers represented a fantastic value, although reading Andrew Quint's review was not as enthusiastic as I thought it would be, considering the improvements to the D4 series.

Living with the 801 for 16 days now, I can confirm that they do need power and I guess the smallest monoblock by Pass Labs is not enough to drive them properly. However, reviewing them in such a small room cannot be accepted as a relevant review. You must give them space to perform and be at least 3 meters away from them so they sound coherent. I still have not read the review, so I will get back once I read it.

I read the review. I agree. Too much speaker for a small a room (15x15). I think a square room is not a very good room acoustically, either.

Best

Charles

As an 800D3 owner, agree the speakers need breathing room off the wall, a bigger room than used for the review and LOTS of power. I was using 1.2KW Mac amps to drive mine before moving to a D’Agostino amp. A largely irrelevant review I’d suggest in terms of being able to judge the speaker properly…

I didn’t find the review helpful

I did not read the review but I agree. I've had the bigger 800 series speakers in my main system and they all need much more room than a 15x15 space.

Building on what Charles mentioned, I can confirm a square room can be very difficult to tame the low frequencies in. While larger, my room is also square and I had to go to a 45 Degree offset arrangement. Eg back and face towards opposite corners.

I also have a dedicated room so total flexibility on listening and speaker positions - that is very important.

The 801D4 came in place of the 800D2. I will try and simplify my findings, just in case someone is interested. The new generation is easier to drive, can play much louder without strain, is less sensitive to placement (it requires careful positioning, but not in nanometres as the D2 required) and much more musical. It serves a greater amount of detail and information but in a way that it involves you more into the music, without being annoying. The distracting and attention grabbing treble is gone, now it is balanced and perfectly blended. The bass is amazing! Deep, articulate, extended, fast and never overpowering. I get the impression that it is much bigger speaker now (which is not). I have the 802D3 in another system (next room), so it is pretty easy to compare with the 801D4. The 802D3 is a lovely speaker, great value! But now compared to 801 D4 seems a bit off balance and hate to say, inarticulate. Still joyful, but it takes at least 40 minutes to wear-off the D4 effect. The D4 is still a B&W Diamond sound, they did not lose the essence, but now it is much more sofisticated, lush and inviting sound. I do not want to sound over enthusiastic, but 801D4 is a top of the line loudspeaker.

Awesome man

Any pics?

Nice, helpful review!
Thanks for taking the time to share

Thanks for sharing - sounds like a winner and may attract some new fans for those that have been previously put off by the somewhat bitey treble

4music, That's an excellent review and much more in line with what I would expect. This is a large speaker. The reviewer should have had a larger room. One thing I have noticed is the deficiency of the reviewers' reference gear in general. This review did not do justice to the sonics of the speaker, IMO. However, the photography was excellent. The description of the speaker was also excellent. Changing amps ought not to alter the frequency response, especially a Pass Labs amp. Next, using a Magico sub to obtain adequate bass was not a good choice. In the old days, when the Thiel CS5 was reviewed for example, when the initial reviewer couldn't get the best out of it, it was handed off to another reviewer. This would have been the best option, IMO.

Best

Charles

I still restrain from posting pictures online. But I might change my mind soon :)

Very interesting group of comments. I have not heard this speaker and have not read the review. However, I agree with the sentiment that a square room is not good for sound - size notwithstanding.

For TAS to select a reviewer whose reference amp is an XA60 also shows a bit of poor judgment. I have no doubt the new 801D4 is an outstanding reference speaker. They'll be other reviews on it that will better expound on its virtues and limitations.

I promise you won't be doxxed, robbed, burgled or othewise relieved of your kit. :thumbsup:

At least not be us...:D

But you may be enamoured, praised, complimented or otherwise by us. :D :yes:

Bi amped the 801D4 now, using Michi M8 for bass, McIntosh MC312 for mid/high.
Huge improvement compared to single Michi, because McIntosh sounds more three dimensional and open in mid/high.
Used a low pass active crossover as well, then bridged passive low pass in 801D4.
(Coils series resistance of 0.4 ohm also lost this way, as a bonus)
Very happy with the result.
Michi M8 monos hard to beat regarding bass control, speed, energy btw.
Great combo.
801D4 is a gorgeous speaker indeed and coming from D3, it is hard to understand how B&W manages it, improving sound quality with every update again.

Had a demo a year ago of Michi P5/S5 with 801 D3, quite impressive I must say

In defense of my room
 

This response is a few weeks late but I just saw the post(s) and did want the chance to engage with the forum on some points regarding rooms and speakers—especially when the conversation can happen in reasoned and civil tones, as is usually the case here.

A couple of comments were made about the size of my listening room, in terms of the space being large enough for 801s. Certainly, the latest version of the Bowers & Wilkins flagship will work well in a much large space than mine. But many audiophiles with a more typical domestic listening environment will want to know if the speaker's a consideration. I've formally reviewed about 30 loudspeakers in this room (and have tried out a few others) and I have a pretty good idea of what will work at this point; so does Robert Harley, who assigns 90% of the products I review. Manufacturers generally do their "due diligence" to assure that they aren't setting a product up for a negative assessment by arranging for it to be heard in an inappropriate setting. So, I can assure you that there's been an informed decision made about bringing a given big loudspeaker to my room.

Nominally, my listening room is 15' x 15', which doesn't sound promising for a larger speaker—but all 15' x 15' rooms aren't created equal. Here's my view of why mine worked out well with the 801 D4s.

• The ceiling is high, and it varies in height, from 10' to 11'6".

• There's a 9' long hallway leading off from one side, even with the right front loudspeaker, as well as other asymmetries/irregularities to the room dimensions. I've positioned GIK diffusers in the middle of the front wall. I usually measure the in-room frequency for each visiting loudspeaker with a Dayton OmniMic system and there haven't been disqualifying room problems—significant modes, etc. I use that information to most effectively dial in a subwoofer, if one's to be used.

• I enjoy relatively near-field listening. I played in orchestras (and rock bands) when I was young, and this audio perspective gives me some of that participatory sense.

Obviously, there's a limit in terms of how large a speaker can go into my room, and I've turned down projects based on my understand of those limits. Clearly, Wilson XVX's or Von Schweikert Ultra 9s don't belong here. But, especially given the specifics of my 15' x 15' room and my listening practices, I feel that the new B&Ws were not mismatched to my space, and that other interested audiophiles with a similar situation should be dissuaded from investigating further. After all, I'd say my review was a positive one.

Thanks for hearing me out. And if anyone's ever in Philly and wants to hear the room (with my usual speakers, Magico M1s) drop me a note and we'll find a time!

Andrew Quint
Senior writer
The Absolute Sound

ARQuint… Welcome to AA! :wave:

Andrew, an honour to have you here! :welcome2.:

Hi Andrew, welcome, I guess you mean Magico S1's instead of M1's ?

Thanks for taking your time to respond on this forum which is greatly appreciated.

I am curious how far your seating position was from the speakers? You mentioned in your review you were only 8 to 9 feet away. I read that B&W claims you should be at least 9 foot 10 inches away for optimal integration between the drivers for best sound and would appreciate your comments on this. You mentioned that you like to listen in the near field and you found yourself “leaning in to fully engage with the music”. I am wondering if this is due to your seating distance from the speakers?

Can you also comment on how much tow in you used and if you tilted the speakers forward based on the tweeter height in relation to your ears at your seating position?

From my experience all of these parameters considerably changes the sound at my listening position with my 802 D3’s in house.

Welcome to the forum Andrew, thank you for giving us your insight!

More on 801 D4 placement in a small-ish room.
 

Sad to say that the 801 D4s are just a fond memory. But my best recollection is that my ears were 8.5" from the front plane of the front plane of the speakers.

When I angle loudspeakers in toward the listening position to achieve the best imaging, I work with a friend using a white noise track on endless repeat. We keep changing the angle until there's a discreet "blob" of sound located centrally and when one moves his head from side to side, there's an imaginary boundary crossed where the character of the noise changes. This tedious exercise does seem to correspond to the most continuous and specific imaging when music is played. A good point to start the process, we've found, is having the speakers aimed in a way so that imaginary lines from the middle of the tweeter cross just in front of the listener's head.

I do attempt to adjust a speaker's spikes not just for leveling but to be sure that, as much as possible, the tweeter are aimed at ear level. I'm certain all of you do as well.

The "leaning in" was my clue that I needed a more robust amplifier to get the 801s to sound their considerable best. My experience was the same with my Berning Quadrature Z monoblocks that are rated at 200 wpc. (Although all 200 wpc amps aren't created equal, of course.) It was only when I borrowed the Tidal integrated that the sound was as authoritative, and the bass was fully controlled. (The room frequency sweeps were quite different with the Pass XO 80.6s and the TIDAL Intra, with some messiness in the lower octaves nearly completely eliminated.) This isn't the first speaker I've had this problem with and, as a result, I just sold the Bernings and have a pair of TIDAL Ferios coming in a month or so. They ought to handle just about anything.

My main speakers are neither Magico M1s (which don't exist) or S1s (which I have for rear speakers when I listen to m-c music. They're M2s.. Sorry about that.

Thanks for clarifying, Andrew. I did not comment before, but I was confused because I could not quite believe that Absolute Sound would have reviewed a pair of speakers in an inappropriate room. Cheers

Hello Andrew and very glad to have you on AA. I read your comprehensive review and thought it was informative, well written, and honest. After reading it and thinking about it, the conclusion I came to was that it had to be your room, since the speaker is rated at 8 ohms and goes down to 15 Hz. It should not need a subwoofer. It should be relatively easy to drive. The roll off beginning at 38 Hz was perplexing as was the change in the frequency response with the various amps. When I am evaluating a speaker for purchase, I want to know how it sounds without a sub. It's unusual for speaker like this to require a sub. I do not believe the speaker worked well in your room. Just my opinion.

Best

Charles

__________________________________________________ _
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: McIntosh MC3500 MK II mono power amp, one per channel; custom granite slabs to set my MC3500 MKII’s; 3 AS125 custom made McIntosh amps stands
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport. Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic. WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection. New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes. Thor is now off my floor.
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made granite slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC); custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

801 D4 powered by Denon AVR X8500H
 

Hi,

The 801 D4 are on it's way. Can they be powered by the Denon AVR X8500H?
Thank you kindly.

Cheers
Caesar

Caesarius, welcome to AA. Huge congrats on your 801D4s! They are tremendous speakers and worthy of a flagship designation.

Although the Denon AVR X8500H has all the bells and whistles, its power may not fully maximize all the performance you’ve paid for in the 801s. In my opinion, the 801s will definitely benefit from gobs of power. If you have or are considering the Denon AVR, I’d suspect you have other configurations in mind.

Lots of friendly, experienced, and expert AAs here so I’m sure they will chime in.

Caesarius… Welcome to AA! :wave:

Caesar, welcome to AA!
Congrats on your purchase.

The 801 D4 is not extremely power hungry, but I don't think there is any AVR on the market that will do it full justice.
I'd keep my AVR for center and surrounds, and add a beefy stereo amp (or monoblocks) to feed the B&Ws properly.

Awesome speakers, Caesar!

I agree with the others--to really hear the B&Ws, you need to invest some serious coin in stereo or dual monoblock amplification. Plenty of choices in the $10-20K range from McIntosh, Bryston, Pass...

Denon makes very good consumer-grade AVRs (I have one), but you're in a very different area now. Good luck!